Ghyll:AuroAnthropology - Revision history

Jcowan: Copy editing, but leaving silly unhistorical en-uk -ise ending alone to avoid stoopit edit war

2005-06-08T13:59:01Z

Copy editing, but leaving silly unhistorical en-uk -ise ending alone to avoid stoopit edit war

Morbus Iff: Inlining the second translated image of Fylesgate Annals.

2005-05-24T22:55:03Z

Inlining the second translated image of Fylesgate Annals.

Morbus Iff: Testing out inline thumbnail addition.

2005-05-24T22:49:00Z

Testing out inline thumbnail addition.

Morbus Iff: Forgot the space between the delimiter and the text.

2005-04-25T20:32:07Z

Forgot the space between the delimiter and the text.

Morbus Iff: Spellchecking, formatting, etc.

2005-04-25T20:31:45Z

Spellchecking, formatting, etc.

Theophenes at 17:54, 25 April 2005

2005-04-25T17:54:03Z

Jcowan: Linkifying Blivingdel

2005-03-06T18:49:19Z

Linkifying Blivingdel

Jcowan: Jcowan boldly bolds the first appearance of every article name in the corresponding article.

2005-01-29T03:40:53Z

Jcowan boldly bolds the first appearance of every article name in the corresponding article.

Joe Bowers: More pictures. Man, this is fun!

2004-09-06T16:10:09Z

More pictures. Man, this is fun!

Morbus Iff: Minor visual edits. Nothing exciting. Encyclopedant reply soon.

2004-09-06T13:02:39Z

Minor visual edits. Nothing exciting. Encyclopedant reply soon.

@@ Line 31: / Line 31: @@
 ----
-I'd just like to emphacise, having studied the Fylesgate Annals for some time, just how strained that translation of the ternary script is: in several places it could easily be interpreted as meaning the opposite with a few very straightforward arguments. Nontheless, I recognize the extreme difficulty in providing translations of ternary script in core script. Perhaps when the Encyclopaedia comes around to defining Ternary Script, we can include some examples of the original. I'd also like to thank Mr. Bowers for including an entry on the oft' neglected field of AuroAnthropology so early on in the creation of the Encyclopaedia. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 13:34, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)
+I'd just like to emphasise, having studied the Fylesgate Annals for some time, just how strained that translation of the ternary script is: in several places it could easily be interpreted as meaning the opposite with a few very straightforward arguments. Nontheless, I recognize the extreme difficulty in providing translations of ternary script in core script. Perhaps when the Encyclopaedia comes around to defining Ternary Script, we can include some examples of the original. I'd also like to thank Mr. Bowers for including an entry on the oft' neglected field of AuroAnthropology so early on in the creation of the Encyclopaedia. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 13:34, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)
 My apologies again for the weak translation- for example, in the sixth (translated) line above, my reading of a 45 degree westward bend in the second-order script as 'rather-charming' could also be read "terrifying", or simply "yellow". Alternative translations by other scholars would be welcome in this space, editors permitting. --[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 13:58, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)

@@ Line 122: / Line 122: @@
 Nope.  Sounds fine by me. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 04:34, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)
-I must admit, although it challenges somewhat our view of Andelphracia, this reading is definitely a possibility. Interested scholars are welcome to consult my [http://www.culturematic.net/ghyll/hail-andelphracia-notes.gif translation notes] on what, in any case, is a remarkably ambivelent passage. (The "See notes charming/the mighty" in the margins refer to my initial reading as Neutral diminutive clever, and which Mr. Palmer has (compellingly) read as a Maj/Minor/Dim 7 chord "The mighty are moved (to create) the machine which names time"). --[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 12:10, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)
+[[Image:Fylesgate Annals Folio 82 Translated.gif|thumb|220px|Fylesgate Annals Folio 82 Translated]] I must admit, although it challenges somewhat our view of Andelphracia, this reading is definitely a possibility. Interested scholars are welcome to consult my [[:Image:Fylesgate Annals Folio 82 Translated.gif|translation notes]] on what, in any case, is a remarkably ambivalent passage. (The "See notes charming/the mighty" in the margins refer to my initial reading as Neutral diminutive clever, and which Mr. Palmer has (compellingly) read as a Maj/Minor/Dim 7 chord "The mighty are moved (to create) the machine which names time"). --[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 12:10, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)
 My personal opinion is that ''The <untranslatable> one rather <untranslatable> master clock'' is actually ''The eudaimonic (,)one(,) rather unknowing master clock''. The reason I have placed two commas is because either is a foreseeable place for the pause, but each would definitely alter the context of the poem. Punctuation in texts of this particular era are fairly difficult to place, seeing as commas were not used for spacing then. What was, well, this author for one has no verdict. --[[User:Theophenes|Theophenes]] 13:54, 25 Apr 2005 (EDT)

@@ Line 51: / Line 51: @@
 </blockquote>
-That 3rd line from the last didn't make no sense, but I see how you could get "yellow" or "rather-charming" or "terrifying" for that glyph. You can clearly see the ascending length structure of the lines in my translation.  Afraid my Ternary Script is a bit rusty, but I think this reading captures the style of a scribe of the Fylesgate Annals just a bit better.
+That 3rd line from the last didn't make no sense, but I see how you could get "yellow" or "rather-charming" or "terrifying" for that glyph. You can clearly see the ascending length structure of the lines in my translation.  Afraid my Ternary Script is a bit rusty, but I think this reading captures the style of a scribe of the Fylesgate Annals just a bit better. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 15:36, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)
 Given that it was her seventh year of mayoresshood (cf. "the creation in the seventh year of the mayoresshood of Andelphracia of her namesakeful lights" in [[Andelphracian Lights]]), that reading is even more unlikely. Current Fylesgate Annals research suggests no verifiable references to non-Andelphracia mayors of Fylesgate--we can be fairly sure that the Annals are almost all only about her activities as Fylesgate mayoress--but as with any investigation into Ternary Script literature, I don't think your reading can be completely discounted. In any case, I here provide my own translation:
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 Though there is quite some diversity in the syntax and semantics of our collective translations, I think that the underlying feel and direction has been now adequately captured by us three. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 17:26, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)
-Thanks to you both for your help! For those of you who may not have access to your own copy of the Annals, I attach the untranslated document (some primary and secondary structure has been omitted for clarity, except when chording with the lower-order structures was necessary). Note the three separate compass strokes (!), that caused me and Mr. Pyre such confusion over the chord "The Mighty/Time/Mechanism". (That, to Mr. Palmer's delight, I read initially as "Time/Charming"). See [http://www.culturematic.net/ghyll/hail-andalphracia.gif Fylesgate Annals Folio 82 (Andelphracia)]. --[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 19:58, 4 Sep 2004
+[[Image:Fylesgate Annals Folio 82.gif|thumb|Fylesgate Annals Folio 82]] Thanks to you both for your help! For those of you who may not have access to your own copy of the Annals, I attach the untranslated document (some primary and secondary structure has been omitted for clarity, except when chording with the lower-order structures was necessary). Note the three separate compass strokes (!), that caused me and Mr. Pyre such confusion over the chord "The Mighty/Time/Mechanism". (That, to Mr. Palmer's delight, I read initially as "Time/Charming"). See [[:Image:Fylesgate Annals Folio 82.gif|Fylesgate Annals Folio 82]]. --[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 19:58, 4 Sep 2004
 I know that my position on Phracia and the Phracians is generally considered risible, paranoid or sometimes even offensive- but sooner or later even the most obtuse will surely be constrained to face facts. We're supposed to be scholars, damn it all. Now- when the gloves finally come off, there's one question I'd dearly love to see settled: just WHY are there no records of mayors other than (''sic'') Andel-Phracia? Now that's a question worth its obith in fefferberry seeds.... --[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]] 16:43, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)
@@ Line 123: / Line 122: @@
 Nope.  Sounds fine by me. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 04:34, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)
-I must admit, although it challenges somewhat our view of Andelphracia, this reading is definitely a possibility. Interested scholars are welcome to consult my [http://www.culturematic.net/ghyll/hail-andelphracia-notes.gif translation notes] on what, in any case, is a remarkably ambivelent passage. (The "See notes charming/the mighty" in the margins refer to my initial reading as Neutral diminutive clever, and which Mr. Palmer has (compellingly) read as a Maj/Minor/Dim 7 chord
+I must admit, although it challenges somewhat our view of Andelphracia, this reading is definitely a possibility. Interested scholars are welcome to consult my [http://www.culturematic.net/ghyll/hail-andelphracia-notes.gif translation notes] on what, in any case, is a remarkably ambivelent passage. (The "See notes charming/the mighty" in the margins refer to my initial reading as Neutral diminutive clever, and which Mr. Palmer has (compellingly) read as a Maj/Minor/Dim 7 chord "The mighty are moved (to create) the machine which names time"). --[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 12:10, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)
 My personal opinion is that ''The <untranslatable> one rather <untranslatable> master clock'' is actually ''The eudaimonic (,)one(,) rather unknowing master clock''. The reason I have placed two commas is because either is a foreseeable place for the pause, but each would definitely alter the context of the poem. Punctuation in texts of this particular era are fairly difficult to place, seeing as commas were not used for spacing then. What was, well, this author for one has no verdict. --[[User:Theophenes|Theophenes]] 13:54, 25 Apr 2005 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:32, 25 April 2005
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	--[[User:Joe Bowers\|Joe Bowers]] 12:10, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)		--[[User:Joe Bowers\|Joe Bowers]] 12:10, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)

−	My personal opinion is that ''The <untranslatable> one rather <untranslatable> master clock'' is actually ''The eudaimonic (,)one(,) rather unknowing master clock''. The reason I have placed two commas is because either is a foreseeable place for the pause, but each would definitely alter the context of the poem. Punctuation in texts of this particular era are fairly difficult to place, seeing as commas were not used for spacing then. What was, well, this author for one has no verdict.--[[User:Theophenes\|Theophenes]] 13:54, 25 Apr 2005 (EDT)	+	My personal opinion is that ''The <untranslatable> one rather <untranslatable> master clock'' is actually ''The eudaimonic (,)one(,) rather unknowing master clock''. The reason I have placed two commas is because either is a foreseeable place for the pause, but each would definitely alter the context of the poem. Punctuation in texts of this particular era are fairly difficult to place, seeing as commas were not used for spacing then. What was, well, this author for one has no verdict. --[[User:Theophenes\|Theophenes]] 13:54, 25 Apr 2005 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:31, 25 April 2005
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	--[[User:Joe Bowers\|Joe Bowers]] 12:10, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)		--[[User:Joe Bowers\|Joe Bowers]] 12:10, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)

−	My personal opinion is that:	+	My personal opinion is that ''The <untranslatable> one rather <untranslatable> master clock'' is actually ''The eudaimonic (,)one(,) rather unknowing master clock''. The reason I have placed two commas is because either is a foreseeable place for the pause, but each would definitely alter the context of the poem. Punctuation in texts of this particular era are fairly difficult to place, seeing as commas were not used for spacing then. What was, well, this author for one has no verdict.--[[User:Theophenes\|Theophenes]] 13:54, 25 Apr 2005 (EDT)
−
−	The <untranslatable> one rather <untranslatable> master clock
−
−	Is actually:
−
−	The eudaimonic (,)one(,) rather ~~unkowing~~ master clock
−
−	The ~~rason~~ I have placed two commas is because either is a ~~forseeable~~ place for the pause, but each would ~~edefinitely~~ alter the context of the poem. Punctuation in texts of this particular era are fairly difficult to place, seeing as commas ~~where~~ not used for ~~spaicing~~ then. ~~Waht~~ was, well, this author for one has no verdict.--[[User:Theophenes\|Theophenes]] 13:54, 25 Apr 2005 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:54, 25 April 2005
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	--[[User:Joe Bowers\|Joe Bowers]] 12:10, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)		--[[User:Joe Bowers\|Joe Bowers]] 12:10, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)
		+
		+	My personal opinion is that:
		+
		+	The <untranslatable> one rather <untranslatable> master clock
		+
		+	Is actually:
		+
		+	The eudaimonic (,)one(,) rather unkowing master clock
		+
		+	The rason I have placed two commas is because either is a forseeable place for the pause, but each would edefinitely alter the context of the poem. Punctuation in texts of this particular era are fairly difficult to place, seeing as commas where not used for spaicing then. Waht was, well, this author for one has no verdict.--[[User:Theophenes\|Theophenes]] 13:54, 25 Apr 2005 (EDT)

@@ Line 37: / Line 37: @@
 I can already hear husbands all across Ghyll saying "why, my dear, you're looking 'rather-charming' in the Bowersian sense today". --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 14:07, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)
-Joe, that's a darn fine translation you got goin' there.  But you forgot the format-dependant nature of Blivingdel's Interpretation of Ternary Script.  Way I read it, it comes out more like:
+Joe, that's a darn fine translation you got goin' there.  But you forgot the format-dependant nature of [[Blivingdel]]'s Interpretation of Ternary Script.  Way I read it, it comes out more like:
 <blockquote>

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:40, 29 January 2005
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−	AuroAnthropology is the social-humanist study of the history of light and light sources in culture, in contrast to the long theological tradition of the [[Brothers of the Lantern]]. Modern AuroAnthropology is a fairly young science, as clear and objective study into light and related matters was until relatively recently the subject of strong taboo, if not outright persecution. Consider the obscure approach which a scribe of the Fylesgate Annals seems to think necessary in referring to the invention of [[Andelphracian Lights]]: (Please forgive the translation from ternary script)	+	'''AuroAnthropology''' is the social-humanist study of the history of light and light sources in culture, in contrast to the long theological tradition of the [[Brothers of the Lantern]]. Modern AuroAnthropology is a fairly young science, as clear and objective study into light and related matters was until relatively recently the subject of strong taboo, if not outright persecution. Consider the obscure approach which a scribe of the Fylesgate Annals seems to think necessary in referring to the invention of [[Andelphracian Lights]]: (Please forgive the translation from ternary script)

	<blockquote>		<blockquote>

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:10, 6 September 2004
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	Nope. Sounds fine by me. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre\|Qwentyth Pyre]] 04:34, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)		Nope. Sounds fine by me. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre\|Qwentyth Pyre]] 04:34, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)
		+
		+	I must admit, although it challenges somewhat our view of Andelphracia, this reading is definitely a possibility. Interested scholars are welcome to consult my [http://www.culturematic.net/ghyll/hail-andelphracia-notes.gif translation notes] on what, in any case, is a remarkably ambivelent passage. (The "See notes charming/the mighty" in the margins refer to my initial reading as Neutral diminutive clever, and which Mr. Palmer has (compellingly) read as a Maj/Minor/Dim 7 chord
		+	"The mighty are moved (to create) the machine which names time")
		+
		+	--[[User:Joe Bowers\|Joe Bowers]] 12:10, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)

@@ Line 97: / Line 97: @@
 Just a note on process- while this is a particularly sticky passage, admittedly translated by an old Folktowner more at home with good old fashioned "Steam-Engineer's" script than Third-Formal orientation, likely some of us will be introducing ancient or foreign texts for which our translations will be authoritative. Perhaps we should agree on one of the following:
-)  Surely all of us are intimately familiar with core script, regardless of time or place of origin. Perhaps we should agree that translations from core scripts are authoritative, while Duadic/Ternary/Quartic/Nth-order texts are subject to multiple varying interpretations (always allowing that no scribe or caligrapher would ever inscribe meaning into a higher order that contradicts a lower order of the same document.)
+# Surely all of us are intimately familiar with core script, regardless of time or place of origin. Perhaps we should agree that translations from core scripts are authoritative, while Duadic/Ternary/Quartic/Nth-order texts are subject to multiple varying interpretations (always allowing that no scribe or caligrapher would ever inscribe meaning into a higher order that contradicts a lower order of the same document.)
+# On the other hand, perhaps it will be enough for scholars simply to note "My translation could be in error" or some such (as I did above), to indicate that their interpretations are open to debate, and all other translations should be assumed to be authoritative.
 If it's of interest, perhaps the Encyclopedants would like to weigh in on this issue?
@@ Line 106: / Line 105: @@
 Qwentyth, you have long been known as one unafraid to speak your mind, openly, fearless and regardless; thank you for your support. I know that others would speak too, if they but dared. But let me leave the present aside, before I waytrack myself beyond measure...
-May I ask a direct opinion on a small matter of translation? Your independent opinion would help me clarify certain aspects of my own thought. I have not as you know now spent time on the Annals for many years since, preferring more active service in the pursuit of knowledge, but I couldn't help but notice line 7 in a new light this morning as it seems to confer support to investigations I am currently undertaking. The key question is how to interpret the second trestach - "farm dispute" in your rendering, together with the prepositional desinence you follow tradition in rendering as "during".
+May I ask a direct opinion on a small matter of translation? Your independent opinion would help me clarify certain aspects of my own thought. I have not as you know now spent time on the Annals for many years since, preferring more active service in the pursuit of knowledge, but I couldn't help but notice line 7 in a new light this morning as it seems to confer support to investigations I am currently undertaking. The key question is how to interpret the second trestach - "farm dispute" in your rendering, together with the prepositional desinence you follow tradition in rendering as "during". Let me quote your own translation of the line in question:
 Let me quote your own translation of the line in question:
-<blockquote>
+<blockquote>Andelphracia presided over Festivals seven times during the farm debate.</blockquote>
-    Andelphracia presided over Festivals seven times during the farm debate.
 The basic semantic points are not at issue: the trestach deliberately places (farm, homestead, place of cultivation) in relation to the gerund (come against), which is usually used to denote the resolution of some degree of lack of agreement and to the authority suffix applied to Anfelphracia. You have combined the gerund and the authority suffix, and so rendered "presided over".  By the bye, this lack of agreement is often, but by no means always, oral. But -and here is my point - would you see any difficulty in rendering "farm dispute" as "dispute at the physical farm" rather than "dispute about the farm question"? If we accept that we are talking about a real place, rather than an abstract concept, then the prepositional desinence can be taken as merely following an older usage as pure embellishment. The line could then be rendered literally as
-Andelphracia in authority - was in opposition to - both sides - during the homesteader's fight
+<blockquote>Andelphracia in authority - was in opposition to - both sides - during the homesteader's fight</blockquote>
-<br />
-or, more colloquially <br />
+Or, more colloquially:
-Andel-Phracia lorded it over the fight at the homestead<br />
 Or -as the Loolier adage has it, when two are quarreling, sneak in and pinch the pigs. Ha!
-Is this stretching things too far, in your opinion?
+Is this stretching things too far, in your opinion? --[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]] 03:49, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)
 Nope.  Sounds fine by me. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 04:34, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)