Disobiki - User contributions [en]

Ghyll:Cadaver, The

2004-09-21T23:09:20Z

Qwentyth Pyre: more Qwentyth opinions on other folks' entries, and one minor edit

The Cadaver is an infamous pub set in the heart of [[Arbuckle Hill]]. Built on the spot where the Arbuckle Hill Martyr's broken body was found, it has become a centre piece of the Arbuckle Hill resistance, particularly the [[Houvers]].

The Cadaver is built in the old style, even though it has been burned to the ground and rebuilt no less than six times. The earlier firings have been attributed to the [[Amphitheatre aristocracy]] and their minions. More recently the damage has been blamed on the internal politics of the various [[Arbuckle Hill]] resistance groups. All this destruction is primarily because The Cadaver functions as the base of operations for the ''galant'' [[Houvers]]. It's four floors of creme walls and dark wood tower above it's neighbouring hovels, it's walls painted with resistance slogans.

Painted in vibrant reds and greens The Cadaver's high hung sign is practically a landmark. Depicting the Arbuckle Hill martyr's broken body lying in a bed of roses. It acts as a symbol of the continuation of The Cadaver, and all it represents, against whatever fate has thrown at it. Local legends suggests that the sign has survived each and every time The Cadaver has been destroyed, although this is unlikely as it would have subcumed to woodworm long ago. ''However what is true is the continuation that it represents is a community which has stood against the oppresion for many generations.''

Over the years many famous people have been seen at The Cadaver. It's infamous reputation is a draw for the adventurous. It is claimed that Siam Sinch and [[Bethany Mboya]] were frequently seen at The Cadaver, before Siam's marrage, although Siam and her family deny this rigerously. ''Which of course is the kind of thing that is the perogative of the "upper classes"''.

The Cadaver serves such items as [[Ball Lightning Liqueur]], light and dark beers as well as being one of the few places in Folktown to serve the best [[Adlorst Vinifera]] vintages and the worst, cheapest rosés. Only The Cadaver has such a varied clientele with such a range of wealth. Food is supposedly served but since few people have survived to recommend it, it is seldom ordered. ''It is a shame, really, that the nobs are not more adventerous in the direction of the food, as it would do the world a favour.''

'''Citations''': [[Arbuckle Hill]], [[Houvers]], [[Amphitheatre aristocracy]], [[Bethany Mboya]], [[Ball Lightning Liqueur]], [[Adlorst Vinifera]].

--[[User:sh1mmer|Despicable Shimmy]] 00:18 20040921 BST

----
I don't hold with some of the more extreme [[Houvers]] views, but the [[Amphitheatre aristocracy]] always struck me as a bunch of effete snobs, so I'm proud to give my personal endorsement to this fine drinking establishment. The 'Daver's [[Adlorst Vinifera]] is truly top notch hooch, and if you've got a whole lot of money burning its way through your pocket, I have it on very good authority they may even have a bottle or two of -16 {{EC}} vintage fefferberry wine. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 19:09, 21 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll talk:Chesix System Of Measures

2004-09-21T22:54:57Z

Qwentyth Pyre: opinion chiming in

Don't forget - there's also a sugro-nanit, and Sbp did some calculations over in the Cranee Historical Society. We do have two phantoms, nanit and sugro-nanit, and I'm wondering if this entry supersedes them - it seems silly to actually define an "inch" in a lexicon, especially when we've got a global entry like the following. How do players feel about removing those terms as definable phantoms? --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 09:44, 21 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Also, your comment about "being able to survive without writing" is broken. The Nitenmangrey are from -900 EC, which is far too soon for writing to have developed. Similarly, the originating Nitenmangrey entry, Aquentravalkeration, says that "since documents from that period remain undeciphered". A document presumes writing. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 09:59, 21 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Based on his Talk discussion over on Cranee, Sbp is suggesting that a nanit is 20 cm, which would be the size of a Bindlet Ball (as per the Bindlett Ball entry, making it roughly half a foot). That would make your Rod 340 cm, or 11 feet, which seems like more of a hUuUUGe staff (larger than most normal staffs), as opposed to a single-handed rod. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 10:05, 21 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I'd like to the Cranee Historical Society nanit/sugro-nanit entries on measurement, and this entry, combined into a single measurement page. After that, I'd suggest the existing phantoms for nanit and sugro-nanit be redirected to that common page. Conceptually, a single page of weights and measures, seems to make more sense in an encyclopedia than individual entries. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 18:54, 21 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Calends Gala

2004-09-21T22:48:04Z

Qwentyth Pyre: props for the good doc, and slipping in a bit of Qwentyth's history

The Calends Galas, as the name implies, are galas surrounding key
calendrical events. In particular, the Calends Galas, traditionally,
occur twice a year. In previous years, when the country was primarily
agrarian, the galas happened at the end of the harvest, and at the end
of the planting. Now that the country is more industrialized, the final
Varhookan of Baros, and the final Varhookan of Gomin, have been agreed
upon for these events.

On the day of the gala, everything else stops. All businesses have the
day off, Government offices and banks are all closed, and schools have
the day off. While it is not, technically, an "official" holiday, it is understood that no work is going to get done anyway.

Every major city has their own Gala, but these tend to be poorly attended, with most people travelling to Folktown for the big Gala there.

The most important source of information about the Calends Galas is the book Gala Rules and Traditions, which is now in its 4th edition. The book has been collated from a variety of ancient documents, newspaper articles, and interviews conducted during Galas. It also contains a selection of winning stories from previous years' contests.

===Harvest Calends Gala===

Held on the last Varhookan of Baros, and ostensibly celebrates the completion of the harvest. Since harvest moves from year to year, depending on the weather, it is placed late enough so that harvest is almost guaranteed to be over.

''Historical note: In -16 [[EC]], the [[fefferberry]] crop was almost entirely lost due to the Gala coinciding with the extremely late ripening of the berries, and the unusually large influx of birds passing through on their annual migration. The small crop resulted in the fefferberry wine of that vintage being highly sought-after, and very costly.''

The Harvest Calends Gala is mostly a agricultural event, with contests
for the best produce, best livestock, and many competitions of strength
and craft making. The [[graphorn]] wrestling contest is always a popular
favorite.

''The [[graphorn]] shall be greased, and shall be released into the ring. The contestant must hold the creature upon the ground for so long as it takes the contestant's partner to drink his flaggon of wine. In the event that it escapes during this period, the flaggon must be refilled. The contest is over when the graphorn has been so pinned, or the contestant's partner has become insensate. (Gala Rules and Traditions, 4th Edition, -23 [[EC]])''

Of great importance is the [[darseed]] judging. Although conducted in the greatest apparent levity, the contest is very serious, since it determines the cost of [[darseed]] for the coming year, which in turn can determine how much [[darseed]] farmers can afford to plant for the next season. The contrasts of this event are captured best in the famous painting of the [[darseed]] farmer, dressed in his brightly colored clothes, complete with the four-tassled hat and false nose, sitting morosely on his bales of produce, to which is attached a yellow note proclaiming a score of 3, shedding bitter tears into his brightly gloves hands. (The artist responsible for this painting is not known. The painting is currently in the Fine Art Museum in Folktown, under extended loan from the anonymous owner of the work.)

===Planting Calends Gala===

Held the last Varhookan of Gomin, celebrating the end of the work of planting. The actual end of planting varies greatly between crops, regions, and years, but there has not been a conflict in recent memory, as everyone tries to get the work done before the Gala. However, in more than one year, a crop has been unsuccessful by virtue of being planted before the ground was quite thawed.

The Planting Calends Gala is a quieter event, focused more on artistic
and literary endeavors, but also with contests involving cooking -
cake-making contests, pie-eating contests, and wine and beer contests.

In some outlying regions, it is regularly reported that [[Pyxie]]s arrive in time for the [[Fefferberry]] wine contest, although it has been many years since they have been seen in Folktown.

===Storytelling===

But the highlight of both galas comes just after sunset, when everyone
gathers in the great central tent for the story-telling contest. From
sundown to the early hours of the next morning, stories are told, with
prizes being given in a variety of categories, including funniest,
shortest, and scariest. The overall winner of the story contest is
crowned the Author Laureat for the six months until the next gala.

''The Author Laureat shall be chosen by popular acclaim, and shall tell his story again as the sun rises on the new day. The story shall be transcribed by a designated person, and shall be distributed to school children around Ghyll. The new Author Laureat may live in the Laureat House in Folktown for the following six-month, until the next Gala, if this is desired. (Gala Rules and Traditions, 4th Edition, -23 [[EC]])''

[[Arariax]] was the Author Laureat for 9 years running, sometime between
-260 and -250[[EC]], and many think that he was driven to his self-imposed
exile due to the negative effect that this was having on the contests:
Nobody else thought they would ever have a chance to win, so the quality
of storytelling was falling considerably.

Most of the well-known authors of the last 200 years have either won the calends gala story contest, or at least done very well in it.

These contests are also very important in the historical record of the nation, since for centuries it was at these events that the histories were told, and thus passed on to the younger generations. Unfortunately, with the advent of readily available printed books, this tradition has started to die out, and many of the old stories have all but passed from memory. Both the [[Cranee Historical Society]] and the [[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]] are watching this trend with great interest, if with somewhat differing goals in mind. And, indeed, there is a promising upsurge in interest in the old stories of late, with last year's Author Laureat being awarded to Mork Wasterson, a 87-year-old man, for telling of his experiences on the day of the [[Earthquake of Fijjit]].

''As he told the tale, it was as though we were there with him, and he was again just 13, running home from the [[Baleman]] as the trembling earth tried to toss him to the ground. ([[Folktown Records]], special Gala report)''

Stories told during the Gala are immediately consigned to the public domain, promoting their widespread retelling. It is not uncommon for the same story to be told year after year, but with embellishments and regional flavor added. In fact, many stories are almost considered to be a necessary part of the traditional competition, and it is thought to be a bad omen for some of them to be missing. The story of the origins of the [[Aelfants]] is one such story, leading to the widespread misconception, held by the unfortunates who have never seen one, that [[Aelfants]] are mythical.

'''Citations:''' [[Aelfants]], [[Baleman]], [[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]], [[Cranee Historical Society]], [[Darseed]], [[Earthquake of Fijjit]], [[Fefferberry]], [[Folktown Records]], [[Graphorn]], [[Pyxie]]s

--[[User:DrBacchus|DrBacchus]] 09:07, 21 Sep 2004 (EDT)

----
Great write-up Doc. You do me proud, remindin' folks of my story "The Epic of the [[Aelfants]]." I would have won Author Laureat the first year I told it too, if it weren't for old You Know Who, whose name I still don't mention. But I aint bitter. Long as the "Epic" keeps gettin' told, I'm happy. Like I said, great write-up Doc. Keep up the good work. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 18:48, 21 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Lexicon discussion

2004-09-21T22:34:14Z

Qwentyth Pyre: /* Multiple links to the same place */

__TOC__

If you've any questions or suggestions about the wiki and its syntax, the Lexicon rules, Ghyll continuity errors, letting us know you're gonna miss a turn, etc., use this page to wax poetic. Be sure to sign your name (using either the second - from - the - right toolbar icon, or typing two hyphens and four tildes), which also includes the timestamp. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 11:32, 20 Aug 2004 (EDT)

==Frequently Asked Questions==

===How do I dib an entry (cf. Rule 1)?===
If there is a specific phantom you'd like to write, wait until the proper turn occurs (ie. waiting for the "R" turn to dib phantom "Rancor") and then edit the phantom to just include a statement of dibbing ("MIIine! ALlL MiIInnE!") and your name/signature. Naturally, the intent of dibbing an entry is so that you actually write it - if you don't during that turn, your dib expires. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 15:53, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

===Can I cite more than I'm required to cite? (cf. Rule 2)===
Each turn after the first, you're required to cite two phantom entries and one existing entry. Neither of these three citations can be terms you've created or written. However, if you've properly met these requirements, your entry can certainly refer to other terms in the Ghyll encyclopedia, including those you've personally written. These "other terms", however, MUST have been previously defined or created. See the [[Ghyll Index]] for a complete list of in-play terms. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 15:53, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

===What happens about linking to widely-used terms?===
It may often be the case that terms are used throughout the dictionary that are not cited initially: you're allowed to invent people, places, etc. that you don't actually cite a reference for. That means that later in the game, people can write about these people, and references can be strewn across the wiki that don't actively ''link'' to the phantom. How is the person to be able to research the references? The general rule of thumb is that when you create a term that you know has been mentioned elsewhere, either you go about looking for existing references and link them, or the admins do it for you. [[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 22:33, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

==Comments, Questions, Complaints?==

===Alternate Reality vs. Fictional World===
Hello people. This looks like a nice game- but I think I got the rules a little wrong in my enthusiasm to get started, entry: anabiscot) by putting more "phantoms" into my entry than were asked for, and by fleshing one or two of them out. I find it impossible to backtrack on the fleshing out, and so a) don't know what to do about them, as I don't want to upeset anyone by not having strictly observed the rules for the first turn and b) wonder whether clearer guidance to newcomers is needed if this isn't to be a closed shop just for oldophytes --[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]] 05:28, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ginestre: we're open to newcomers, definitely. As for the rules, check out #1: "Scholars ... write one entry per turn" and then #2: "Entries shall cite two phantom entries". I've deleted all your out of turn entries, so there's no worries there (to return an entry to a phantom, just click the "delete" button as opposed to "edit", and give a reason for the deletion). Let me know which part of the rules initially confused you. We'll be adding an "Example of a Turn" to the main page shortly. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 09:41, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Finally, and sadly, I've deleted your Anabiscot entry for being too much of an "Earth-parody". It, ultimately, looked like a school term paper that was revised to include "made up" words as opposed to their Earthen counterparts (as seen in your revising of "England" to "Ghyll", and the inclusion of Christian, Protestant, University of Helsinki, etc., etc.). Based on your timpstamps, I can appreciate how this deletion must look compared to your two hours of editing. But, it's really not the sort of material we're looking for. Think "when we crossed the threshold, I hit my new bride's head on the door jamb, and in her ensuing mental insanity, she described something that'd sounds just like Ghyll's [NameOfEntry]" as opposed to "What have I written already that I can modify for the game?" --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 09:41, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

The new entry on the EXAMPLE OF PLAY page is certainly much clearer than the previous offering, and is to be commended. Had that been there, I would not have stumbled as I did this morning. But the comment on my deleted entry "it's not really what we're looking for" is rather telling, and is telling me to be on my way nevertheless. "It, ultimately, looked like a school term paper..etc" also clearly reveals that you see your position as an empowered subeditor of sorts, who has the role of judging text quality; fair game -it's your server, you call the shots. But to this newcomer (a professional writer who wasted words this morning just for fun, and who hasn't written a term paper in over thirty years!) it nevertheless seems a great pity, because the game is a nice idea. Applying the wiki to what used to be called four-handed writing would allow the natural numerical limits of collaborative collective writing to over-bound. But in fact you're not open to newcomers at all, despite the protestations....but it was an interesting try.--[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]] 17:49, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ginestre: there's been a lot of off-wiki discussion about how this game should unfold, comprising nine months of a lot of arguing, a lot of ideas and scanty documentation, and a lot of ideas that it's going to be difficult to crystallise on the wiki quickly. I, personally, think that your entries were marvellous, but in the context of the direction that we're trying to develop for this wiki they're not <em>quite</em> what we're after. In other words, we're opening this up very much on the ground floor and trying to establish the past that we have, so you'll have to excuse the odd bit of seemingly baseless "oh no, that's not the way it should be done" banter. Imagine if you'd come into a game that's been running for nearly a year, and there were a lot of dedicated players and in-game jokes and conventions already. That basically <em>is</em> the situation here to some extent, we just haven't been able to document it properly yet, and we're also in a stage of "well, let's see what other people think". Some things are very much negotiable, and some aren't. Anyway, I hope that you'll consider still joining in and being patient with us as we work through this nascent stage, because I think your entries showed an enthusiasm and quality that it would be sad for us to miss out on. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 18:03, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I've sent Ginestre a longer email on the subject, but the distinction I made with my actions was one of "fictional world" versus "alternate reality." It was our intent for Ghyll to be a "fictional world", one that has little semblance to the "real" world, namely Earth. While we realize this can be an impossibility, as creativity is emboldened in what we know, we wanted to stay away from what we call an "Earth parody" - a world that has direct, obvious, and blatant parallels to our own - more of an "alternate reality" as opposed to "fictional world". LORD OF THE RINGS is a "fictional world", whereas the Sci-Fi show SLIDERS is an alternate reality, as are the TWILIGHT ZONE, THE OUTER LIMITS, and so forth. Which isn't to say that I'm against equivalency - in the early game, newspaper, magnetism, war, research organizations, basements, "flash lights/beacons", etc. already exist. But they're described in an environment of "fictional world" not "alternate reality". As for judging text or entry quality, honestly, I'd like to stay as far away from that as possible. Again, the distinction made with your entry was one of "Earth parody" and not "fictional world." --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 19:20, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

===Non-turn Activities===
Morbus: What're we doing with respect to canonical but non-turn activities? There's the possibility of the Encyclopedants mailing out letters to all the scholars as you discussed, but did we talk about a per-turn summary too? I think it'd be helpful in that it'd make us analyse what's currently being worked on to ensure its consistency, as well as helping newcomers to the game and people who have been on holiday etc. It could be a collaborative effort between all the scholars who contributed to the first turn, and it might actually serve to clarify some of the intentions etc. behind the entries. I'm not sure what framework could be used to justify it in terms of the game itself though; perhaps the scholars all meet up in a F2F meeting somewhere in a different location per turn? We could order it as though it's meeting minutes: have a little abstract of the location that we met at, introduce some of the scholars, have dialogue, and then the main summary of what's been written. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 17:46, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

My personal in-game plan was, as you mention, the Encyclopedants - the people who are "funding" the encyclopedia and who "collate" the entries for "publication" (at the end of a turn). These Encyclopedants would serve as the "voice of cohesion", and really fill a void that the Ghyll Lexicon is missing: an existing backdrop to base entries on. Other Lexicons were based on existing worlds (Paranoia, Exalted, Nobilis), and thus, the "voice of cohesion" concerning stuff like dates, geography, races, etc. were the original books the games were derived from. There's none of that in Ghyll. For instance, sometime soon, the Encyclopedants will release a document, in-game, on how scholars should handle dates. This would be some sort of "Progress Report Issue 1", where # is the # of the turn in question. Ultimately, the topics discussed in these Progress Reports would be about the integrity of the encyclopedia itself: continuity errors, worrisome plot holes, and etc. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 19:36, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

As for a scholarly F2F, I like that idea, and I think the best way to approximate that would be a sort of "in-game" Lexicon discussion. The Encyclopedants could release a Progress Report detailing worries they're having, and other scholars could log their own complaints and concerns on the Progress Report page itself. This would keep everything centralized, and would be a more vocal, less-controlled [[Current events]] (a "current in-game events") page. I think it'd also be handy, upon reaching Z, for scholars and the Encyclopedants to prepare a personal "Final Report", discussing how they felt things went, what could be done better for the next Round, and so on and so forth. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 19:36, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

===Other Threads===

''Got some comments or questions? Add 'em here!''

====Players and Scholars as Canon====

Er, okay, so can we refer to our own characters as the inventors of something? By that I mean, if my character invented a new sight for the smooth-bore musket, could I make an entry based on that? --[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 14:13, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Sure, there's nothing stopping you from doing that, but by making yourself an official part of the canon (as opposed to non-canon Scholar bios), you make yourself liable to follow other people's truths. It'd be possible to kill you off, and yadda yadda yadda. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 14:28, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Well, as long as I can make contributions from beyond the grave, or at least through posthumous notes, I might be okay with that.
--[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 14:32, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

That is a danger I did not foresee. In the Bobby Shwarmph entry, I included a reference that incorporated Scholar Edward Schwarmph into the canon, assuming that since he phantomed the entry and that he studies a field linked closely to that covered by the magazine edited by the character he created with the same surname, they were related. If I put him in danger in the process, that was probably a breach of courtesy. While I suppose there is nothing stopping any of us from embarking on studies to be discovered after our deaths, there is probably a better way to handle this. A later entry could establish a conduit of communication with dead scholars and other Ghyllians, but then we wouldn't have to do research at all- we'd just get a soul who was there on the line to offer their take on things. I suggest we treat bios as canonical, and all characters are "in game," and hence fair game. Then, if a scholar is killed off and its player cares to continue, the player creates a successor- say a favored student or offspring -poised to continue the work. If players are non-canon, I should either delete the Edward reference in the Bobby Shwarmph entry, be referring to someone else entirely who coincidentally has the exact same name and job, or at least get my fellow scholar'a permission before something unfortunate occurs to him as a result of my entering him into canon without his express consent. --[[User:Bast ResNovae|Bast ResNovae]] 20:40, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Which brings me to another question- presuming events are unfolding in our world even as more entries are written, we might run into situations where an entry is obsolete or needs updating based on events that hadn't happened yet, or information only discovered after it was written. Therefore, should we be dating our entries to avoid confusion? (ie: last updated 0/09/1 EC by Bast ResNovae) --[[User:Bast ResNovae|Bast ResNovae]] 20:40, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Making scholar biographies canon is very dangerous as it distorts the flow of the game. Since the bios are not restricted by turn of gameplay, they can be updated at any moment, thus invalidating anything previously written about them. Similarly, any scholar could define a phantom, then write about it in their scholar bio, thus hedging the bets that their phantom, written by someone else, is ''exactly how they envisioned it''. One of the "fun" aspects of the game is seeing your ideas corrupted and perverted into something you've never dreamed of - allowing scholars to modify their biographies at any time (since they're non-turns) invalidates this aspect. Remember the intro to the game: ''you can argue vociferously with the interpretation and introduce new facts that shade the interpretation.'' Just because you've named Edward Shwarmph in an entry doesn't mean it's the exact same Edward as the scholar: it could be his twin, clone, doppelganger, or what have you. If your Edward dies, it is "truth", but that doesn't mean that a new fact can't be introduced that twists the truth into something else entirely. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 21:20, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Making scholars themselves canon is something that only the player playing the scholar should decide they want to do: roleplaying a character based on someone else's direction is another aspect (with its own measure of "fun") of a Lexicon that may be enjoyable to some: it should be a choice to the player whether they want to receive this direction, or if they'd like to fixate on their own vision. Making all scholars canon, and thus definable and modifiable by others, may be above and beyond what a player would like, resulting in a character they simply don't want to play. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 21:20, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Oh, I've opened a can of worms here. How does one propose a new rule? Perhaps the restriction of no new phantoms from a player's scholar's bio? Though, I'm in complete agreement that only players should be allowed to make their scholars canon. --[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 21:41, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

That is already a house rule actually - see the last paragraph of "How to Participate" on the main page. I've already removed a number of newly defined phantoms from various scholar pages. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 21:54, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Good point. Player Edward Shwarmph could, for example, be riding on the coattails of a more distinguished scholar of the saame name. Or be impersonating him. Or be a relative... or what have you. If he still has the ability to accept or reject the canonical identity as he chooses, I won't worry about it- I'll just leave it up to him.--[[User:Bast ResNovae|Bast ResNovae]] 23:26, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

====Multiple links to the same place====

I'm removing all links to the same place except the first (there might be some reason to make it other than the first, but I can't imagine it at the moment). Linking ''every'' instance of "Council" to the [[Council on Quezlarian Research]] is unnecessary and makes the page unaesthetic. --[[User:Jcowan|Jcowan]] 02:45, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I heartily disagree. It makes the page "unaesthetic" quote unquote because of their visual proximity to each other. But, in very long entries, like Bethany or the Bureau, linking only the first mention forces the user to scroll upwards to find a previous link, as opposed to "holding their place" and opening the link they just read in a new window or tab. I'd rather link everything for future usability, then link only the first and be distracted by a "lose the moment" treasure hunt to find the first reference to click on. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 08:42, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I've got to agree with Morbus on this one. Hypertext means never having to say "but I digress." If a page appears too cluttered with links to the same term, that is probably an indication that it should be re-written with synonyms. I look forward to the day when we have a finished Ghyll Encyclopedia, where each entry is chock full of links to things that others have decided to phantom later. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 20:05, 20 Sep 2004 (EDT)

What I'm trying to discourage is this sort of thing (only somewhat exaggerated):
* When [[Rambo Jones]] was born, [[Rambo Jones|he]] was under a prophecy that [[Rambo Jones|he]] would grow up to be [[Rambo Jones|the President]] of the [[Rambo Jones]] Society. [[Rambo Jones|He]] had [[Rambo Jones|his]] share of troubles, but [[Rambo Jones|he]] eventually did.
I agree with Morbus that in a very long article multiple links may be in order, but mechanically linking '''every''' reference, as above, is just maddening. I don't see how rewriting with synonyms would help, since the synonyms would just be linked -- under the preceding strategy -- to the same page in the end. --[[User:Jcowan|Jcowan]] 10:17, 21 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Well yes, that would just be silly. In your example I would link none of the "he/his/the president" but would link the two "Rambo Jones" proper name citations. Using "he/his/The President" is exactly what I meant by using synonyms. I wouldn't expect those synonyms to be links, but I would expect each proper name usage to be one. Just my opinion, of course. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 18:34, 21 Sep 2004 (EDT)

====Correction of spelling and typos====

What is general etiquette on the correction of spelling and typos in entries other than mine? (not that either my spelling or typing is perfect, but I assume nobody objects if I correct myself)?
--[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]] 13:58, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)

If it's definitely an error, please go ahead and correct it! As long as you don't change the semantics of someone's entry, you can certainly change the syntax to make it easier to read, clearer, etc. Imagine you're correcting someone's English paper: you're not going to do their work for them, but you want to let them know that it's "i before e except after c and except in wierd words such as weird". --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 14:09, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)

==Useful Resources==

You can use this [http://www.fourteenminutes.com/fun/words/ random word generator] to generate entry names that begin with a specified pair of letters. --[[User:Jcowan|Jcowan]] 17:07, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

You may also make use of generators found here [http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~pound/ Chris Pound's Name Generation Page], particularly, [http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~pound/#werd werd], for names. (Look for the examples of Victorian English names.)
--[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 14:01, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Not to toot my own horn, but, well, I'm tooting my own horn. Need a "good" name for someone in the Encyclopedia? Try [http://www.fantasist.net/funnynames.shtml The Funny Name Generator], by yours truly.
--[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 17:31, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Lexicon discussion

2004-09-21T00:05:39Z

Qwentyth Pyre: /* Multiple links to the same place */

__TOC__

If you've any questions or suggestions about the wiki and its syntax, the Lexicon rules, Ghyll continuity errors, letting us know you're gonna miss a turn, etc., use this page to wax poetic. Be sure to sign your name (using either the second - from - the - right toolbar icon, or typing two hyphens and four tildes), which also includes the timestamp. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 11:32, 20 Aug 2004 (EDT)

==Frequently Asked Questions==

===How do I dib an entry (cf. Rule 1)?===
If there is a specific phantom you'd like to write, wait until the proper turn occurs (ie. waiting for the "R" turn to dib phantom "Rancor") and then edit the phantom to just include a statement of dibbing ("MIIine! ALlL MiIInnE!") and your name/signature. Naturally, the intent of dibbing an entry is so that you actually write it - if you don't during that turn, your dib expires. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 15:53, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

===Can I cite more than I'm required to cite? (cf. Rule 2)===
Each turn after the first, you're required to cite two phantom entries and one existing entry. Neither of these three citations can be terms you've created or written. However, if you've properly met these requirements, your entry can certainly refer to other terms in the Ghyll encyclopedia, including those you've personally written. These "other terms", however, MUST have been previously defined or created. See the [[Ghyll Index]] for a complete list of in-play terms. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 15:53, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

===What happens about linking to widely-used terms?===
It may often be the case that terms are used throughout the dictionary that are not cited initially: you're allowed to invent people, places, etc. that you don't actually cite a reference for. That means that later in the game, people can write about these people, and references can be strewn across the wiki that don't actively ''link'' to the phantom. How is the person to be able to research the references? The general rule of thumb is that when you create a term that you know has been mentioned elsewhere, either you go about looking for existing references and link them, or the admins do it for you. [[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 22:33, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

==Comments, Questions, Complaints?==

===Alternate Reality vs. Fictional World===
Hello people. This looks like a nice game- but I think I got the rules a little wrong in my enthusiasm to get started, entry: anabiscot) by putting more "phantoms" into my entry than were asked for, and by fleshing one or two of them out. I find it impossible to backtrack on the fleshing out, and so a) don't know what to do about them, as I don't want to upeset anyone by not having strictly observed the rules for the first turn and b) wonder whether clearer guidance to newcomers is needed if this isn't to be a closed shop just for oldophytes --[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]] 05:28, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ginestre: we're open to newcomers, definitely. As for the rules, check out #1: "Scholars ... write one entry per turn" and then #2: "Entries shall cite two phantom entries". I've deleted all your out of turn entries, so there's no worries there (to return an entry to a phantom, just click the "delete" button as opposed to "edit", and give a reason for the deletion). Let me know which part of the rules initially confused you. We'll be adding an "Example of a Turn" to the main page shortly. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 09:41, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Finally, and sadly, I've deleted your Anabiscot entry for being too much of an "Earth-parody". It, ultimately, looked like a school term paper that was revised to include "made up" words as opposed to their Earthen counterparts (as seen in your revising of "England" to "Ghyll", and the inclusion of Christian, Protestant, University of Helsinki, etc., etc.). Based on your timpstamps, I can appreciate how this deletion must look compared to your two hours of editing. But, it's really not the sort of material we're looking for. Think "when we crossed the threshold, I hit my new bride's head on the door jamb, and in her ensuing mental insanity, she described something that'd sounds just like Ghyll's [NameOfEntry]" as opposed to "What have I written already that I can modify for the game?" --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 09:41, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

The new entry on the EXAMPLE OF PLAY page is certainly much clearer than the previous offering, and is to be commended. Had that been there, I would not have stumbled as I did this morning. But the comment on my deleted entry "it's not really what we're looking for" is rather telling, and is telling me to be on my way nevertheless. "It, ultimately, looked like a school term paper..etc" also clearly reveals that you see your position as an empowered subeditor of sorts, who has the role of judging text quality; fair game -it's your server, you call the shots. But to this newcomer (a professional writer who wasted words this morning just for fun, and who hasn't written a term paper in over thirty years!) it nevertheless seems a great pity, because the game is a nice idea. Applying the wiki to what used to be called four-handed writing would allow the natural numerical limits of collaborative collective writing to over-bound. But in fact you're not open to newcomers at all, despite the protestations....but it was an interesting try.--[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]] 17:49, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ginestre: there's been a lot of off-wiki discussion about how this game should unfold, comprising nine months of a lot of arguing, a lot of ideas and scanty documentation, and a lot of ideas that it's going to be difficult to crystallise on the wiki quickly. I, personally, think that your entries were marvellous, but in the context of the direction that we're trying to develop for this wiki they're not <em>quite</em> what we're after. In other words, we're opening this up very much on the ground floor and trying to establish the past that we have, so you'll have to excuse the odd bit of seemingly baseless "oh no, that's not the way it should be done" banter. Imagine if you'd come into a game that's been running for nearly a year, and there were a lot of dedicated players and in-game jokes and conventions already. That basically <em>is</em> the situation here to some extent, we just haven't been able to document it properly yet, and we're also in a stage of "well, let's see what other people think". Some things are very much negotiable, and some aren't. Anyway, I hope that you'll consider still joining in and being patient with us as we work through this nascent stage, because I think your entries showed an enthusiasm and quality that it would be sad for us to miss out on. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 18:03, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I've sent Ginestre a longer email on the subject, but the distinction I made with my actions was one of "fictional world" versus "alternate reality." It was our intent for Ghyll to be a "fictional world", one that has little semblance to the "real" world, namely Earth. While we realize this can be an impossibility, as creativity is emboldened in what we know, we wanted to stay away from what we call an "Earth parody" - a world that has direct, obvious, and blatant parallels to our own - more of an "alternate reality" as opposed to "fictional world". LORD OF THE RINGS is a "fictional world", whereas the Sci-Fi show SLIDERS is an alternate reality, as are the TWILIGHT ZONE, THE OUTER LIMITS, and so forth. Which isn't to say that I'm against equivalency - in the early game, newspaper, magnetism, war, research organizations, basements, "flash lights/beacons", etc. already exist. But they're described in an environment of "fictional world" not "alternate reality". As for judging text or entry quality, honestly, I'd like to stay as far away from that as possible. Again, the distinction made with your entry was one of "Earth parody" and not "fictional world." --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 19:20, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

===Non-turn Activities===
Morbus: What're we doing with respect to canonical but non-turn activities? There's the possibility of the Encyclopedants mailing out letters to all the scholars as you discussed, but did we talk about a per-turn summary too? I think it'd be helpful in that it'd make us analyse what's currently being worked on to ensure its consistency, as well as helping newcomers to the game and people who have been on holiday etc. It could be a collaborative effort between all the scholars who contributed to the first turn, and it might actually serve to clarify some of the intentions etc. behind the entries. I'm not sure what framework could be used to justify it in terms of the game itself though; perhaps the scholars all meet up in a F2F meeting somewhere in a different location per turn? We could order it as though it's meeting minutes: have a little abstract of the location that we met at, introduce some of the scholars, have dialogue, and then the main summary of what's been written. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 17:46, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

My personal in-game plan was, as you mention, the Encyclopedants - the people who are "funding" the encyclopedia and who "collate" the entries for "publication" (at the end of a turn). These Encyclopedants would serve as the "voice of cohesion", and really fill a void that the Ghyll Lexicon is missing: an existing backdrop to base entries on. Other Lexicons were based on existing worlds (Paranoia, Exalted, Nobilis), and thus, the "voice of cohesion" concerning stuff like dates, geography, races, etc. were the original books the games were derived from. There's none of that in Ghyll. For instance, sometime soon, the Encyclopedants will release a document, in-game, on how scholars should handle dates. This would be some sort of "Progress Report Issue 1", where # is the # of the turn in question. Ultimately, the topics discussed in these Progress Reports would be about the integrity of the encyclopedia itself: continuity errors, worrisome plot holes, and etc. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 19:36, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

As for a scholarly F2F, I like that idea, and I think the best way to approximate that would be a sort of "in-game" Lexicon discussion. The Encyclopedants could release a Progress Report detailing worries they're having, and other scholars could log their own complaints and concerns on the Progress Report page itself. This would keep everything centralized, and would be a more vocal, less-controlled [[Current events]] (a "current in-game events") page. I think it'd also be handy, upon reaching Z, for scholars and the Encyclopedants to prepare a personal "Final Report", discussing how they felt things went, what could be done better for the next Round, and so on and so forth. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 19:36, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

===Other Threads===

''Got some comments or questions? Add 'em here!''

====Players and Scholars as Canon====

Er, okay, so can we refer to our own characters as the inventors of something? By that I mean, if my character invented a new sight for the smooth-bore musket, could I make an entry based on that? --[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 14:13, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Sure, there's nothing stopping you from doing that, but by making yourself an official part of the canon (as opposed to non-canon Scholar bios), you make yourself liable to follow other people's truths. It'd be possible to kill you off, and yadda yadda yadda. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 14:28, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Well, as long as I can make contributions from beyond the grave, or at least through posthumous notes, I might be okay with that.
--[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 14:32, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

That is a danger I did not foresee. In the Bobby Shwarmph entry, I included a reference that incorporated Scholar Edward Schwarmph into the canon, assuming that since he phantomed the entry and that he studies a field linked closely to that covered by the magazine edited by the character he created with the same surname, they were related. If I put him in danger in the process, that was probably a breach of courtesy. While I suppose there is nothing stopping any of us from embarking on studies to be discovered after our deaths, there is probably a better way to handle this. A later entry could establish a conduit of communication with dead scholars and other Ghyllians, but then we wouldn't have to do research at all- we'd just get a soul who was there on the line to offer their take on things. I suggest we treat bios as canonical, and all characters are "in game," and hence fair game. Then, if a scholar is killed off and its player cares to continue, the player creates a successor- say a favored student or offspring -poised to continue the work. If players are non-canon, I should either delete the Edward reference in the Bobby Shwarmph entry, be referring to someone else entirely who coincidentally has the exact same name and job, or at least get my fellow scholar'a permission before something unfortunate occurs to him as a result of my entering him into canon without his express consent. --[[User:Bast ResNovae|Bast ResNovae]] 20:40, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Which brings me to another question- presuming events are unfolding in our world even as more entries are written, we might run into situations where an entry is obsolete or needs updating based on events that hadn't happened yet, or information only discovered after it was written. Therefore, should we be dating our entries to avoid confusion? (ie: last updated 0/09/1 EC by Bast ResNovae) --[[User:Bast ResNovae|Bast ResNovae]] 20:40, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Making scholar biographies canon is very dangerous as it distorts the flow of the game. Since the bios are not restricted by turn of gameplay, they can be updated at any moment, thus invalidating anything previously written about them. Similarly, any scholar could define a phantom, then write about it in their scholar bio, thus hedging the bets that their phantom, written by someone else, is ''exactly how they envisioned it''. One of the "fun" aspects of the game is seeing your ideas corrupted and perverted into something you've never dreamed of - allowing scholars to modify their biographies at any time (since they're non-turns) invalidates this aspect. Remember the intro to the game: ''you can argue vociferously with the interpretation and introduce new facts that shade the interpretation.'' Just because you've named Edward Shwarmph in an entry doesn't mean it's the exact same Edward as the scholar: it could be his twin, clone, doppelganger, or what have you. If your Edward dies, it is "truth", but that doesn't mean that a new fact can't be introduced that twists the truth into something else entirely. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 21:20, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Making scholars themselves canon is something that only the player playing the scholar should decide they want to do: roleplaying a character based on someone else's direction is another aspect (with its own measure of "fun") of a Lexicon that may be enjoyable to some: it should be a choice to the player whether they want to receive this direction, or if they'd like to fixate on their own vision. Making all scholars canon, and thus definable and modifiable by others, may be above and beyond what a player would like, resulting in a character they simply don't want to play. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 21:20, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Oh, I've opened a can of worms here. How does one propose a new rule? Perhaps the restriction of no new phantoms from a player's scholar's bio? Though, I'm in complete agreement that only players should be allowed to make their scholars canon. --[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 21:41, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

That is already a house rule actually - see the last paragraph of "How to Participate" on the main page. I've already removed a number of newly defined phantoms from various scholar pages. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 21:54, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Good point. Player Edward Shwarmph could, for example, be riding on the coattails of a more distinguished scholar of the saame name. Or be impersonating him. Or be a relative... or what have you. If he still has the ability to accept or reject the canonical identity as he chooses, I won't worry about it- I'll just leave it up to him.--[[User:Bast ResNovae|Bast ResNovae]] 23:26, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

====Multiple links to the same place====

I'm removing all links to the same place except the first (there might be some reason to make it other than the first, but I can't imagine it at the moment). Linking ''every'' instance of "Council" to the [[Council on Quezlarian Research]] is unnecessary and makes the page unaesthetic. --[[User:Jcowan|Jcowan]] 02:45, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I heartily disagree. It makes the page "unaesthetic" quote unquote because of their visual proximity to each other. But, in very long entries, like Bethany or the Bureau, linking only the first mention forces the user to scroll upwards to find a previous link, as opposed to "holding their place" and opening the link they just read in a new window or tab. I'd rather link everything for future usability, then link only the first and be distracted by a "lose the moment" treasure hunt to find the first reference to click on. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 08:42, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I've got to agree with Morbus on this one. Hypertext means never having to say "but I digress." If a page appears too cluttered with links to the same term, that is probably an indication that it should be re-written with synonyms. I look forward to the day when we have a finished Ghyll Encyclopedia, where each entry is chock full of links to things that others have decided to phantom later. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 20:05, 20 Sep 2004 (EDT)

====Correction of spelling and typos====

What is general etiquette on the correction of spelling and typos in entries other than mine? (not that either my spelling or typing is perfect, but I assume nobody objects if I correct myself)?
--[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]] 13:58, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)

If it's definitely an error, please go ahead and correct it! As long as you don't change the semantics of someone's entry, you can certainly change the syntax to make it easier to read, clearer, etc. Imagine you're correcting someone's English paper: you're not going to do their work for them, but you want to let them know that it's "i before e except after c and except in wierd words such as weird". --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 14:09, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)

==Useful Resources==

You can use this [http://www.fourteenminutes.com/fun/words/ random word generator] to generate entry names that begin with a specified pair of letters. --[[User:Jcowan|Jcowan]] 17:07, 1 Sep 2004 (EDT)

You may also make use of generators found here [http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~pound/ Chris Pound's Name Generation Page], particularly, [http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~pound/#werd werd], for names. (Look for the examples of Victorian English names.)
--[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 14:01, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Not to toot my own horn, but, well, I'm tooting my own horn. Need a "good" name for someone in the Encyclopedia? Try [http://www.fantasist.net/funnynames.shtml The Funny Name Generator], by yours truly.
--[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 17:31, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll talk:Cranee Historical Society

2004-09-20T23:58:20Z

Qwentyth Pyre:

I've decided to work on some of the details of distances of Ghyll, using the facts that one nanit is "small" according to [[Bindlet Ball]], and 18 nanits seems quite large as the basis for Ghyll distance terminology. I feel that [[sugro-nanit]] is really quite an irritating term, but I've used it and made it equivalent to a mile to give it some more substance. Cranee is to be between the [[Evesque Valley]] and Folktown, eighteen miles from Folktown and twenty five from the [[Evesque Valley]]. I'd say that a nanit could well be 20cm; that'd make the boxes 3.6m across, which seems about right for huge magnetic whatsits. A mile [http://www.google.com/search?q=one+mile+in+centimetres&oe=UTF-8 is 160934.4cm] according to Google, so that means that there are 8046.72 nanits to a mile. Okay! That means that there are 144840.96 nanits between Cranee and Folktown, and 201168 nanits between Cranee and the Evesque Valley. To tie it back into earthly distances, I can say that Cranee -> Folktown is 18 * 5280 "paces", and then hope that Ghyllians are roughly the same size as humans--and I think that they should be, but I guess there's no way of knowing. Everything in the Ghyll universe could be different, so it's a case of making all the relative distances work. This section should go in the Talk page.

--[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 03:44, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

==A Call To Order==
Ladies and not-so-ladies: this is, in some respects, a protest and parody entry. As I've already confided to Morbus, I'm slightly worried about the direction that Ghyll is taking on many levels, and I am here proposing a reform. The main problem is that we simply do not have enough reading and discussion time in contrast to the writing time. We have ten to twenty entries per turn: we've had eighteen this week, and it's simply too much too keep up with. Keeping up with the entries themselves isn't even the biggest problem, it's that it leads to a proliferation of entries that are written in complete isolation from one another.

I propose that instead of having a week of writing time and zero contemplation and discussion time, we should try to balance it out somewhat more. Perhaps every five turns, we could have a period of two weeks where no one is allowed to contribute to the canon, and we have to discuss what's been going on in the wiki, what we hope for the characters, where we want the game to develop. There is simply ''no'' out-of-game discussion about the game at the moment, whereas I think that ought to be its principal feature! I think this comes from us wanting to keep our ideas to ourselves so that we can surprise people when we publish them, but I also think it comes from us not planning our entries out in advance, ot wanting to seek others' input, and often from just rushing the entries full-stop. We had three entries in the half an hour before the turn's deadline, and that's silly: as Morbus suggests, we ought to place a moratorium on entries before the deadline, but I think that it should be quite a bit longer than Morbus is probably thinking. A week may be too short a time anyway, so I'm thinking about having five days to soak up the entries and discuss future directions, and then five days in which to write all our dibs. So the process will be day 1: dib; days 1-5: discuss and plan; days 6-10: write entries. That we had three entries in the last half an hour of the turn seems to indicate that a week is simply not long enough for people to catch up with Ghyll (and I must admit that this is partly spurred on by me having some commitments over the next week or so that's going to make it difficult to play Ghyll), though the period that we had for turn A seems too long.

Cranee was written quite ''extempore'', but when you look at the structure it's quite obvious that the top section is pedantry gone mad (the distance measures) and the rest is whimsy. I'm kinda irritated that people haven't been able to look into the easter eggs and puns etc. that I hid in my previous two entries, and I decided I wasn't going to waste the time on this entry doing the same--but I've also had not much time to check out the puns and cool references in other people's entries. Perhaps each time an entry is written up, people ought to discuss all the references in the Talk page instead of just leaving them all hidden. I don't think that just banging out entries every week can really be thought of as all that playing Ghyll consists of: you have to care about creating a large and consistent lexicon here, and I'm not sure what percentage of the players really feel that. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 03:44, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

==Just What is the Intent of Play?==
I hate to be a dork, but I'm not "feeling" the idea of a discussion period - it seems to change the focus of the game away from "let's challenge myself by letting others pervert my ideas" to "let's put ideas on the table and collectively write them together". If that's the direction Neel wanted to take in his development of "Lexicon the RPG", then he wouldn't need to stress the facts that "you are cranky, opinionated, prejudiced, and eccentric", and that "you can argue vociferously with the interpretation and introduce new facts that shade the interpretation". If the intent of the OOG discussions is for everyone to agree on what the direction and goals are, and then to write fiction supporting those goals, we're removing the need for scholars to be cranky and prejudiced (they're just documenting what everyone agrees on), and also arguments and introduction (scholars don't need to argue because the OOG player discussions have already done that, and new facts don't need to be introduced because they've already been agreed upon in the discussion).

I think that "Lexicon the RPG", the name, and specifically, "the RPG" is telling. If you've never played a game of Dungeons & Dragons or anything similar, then you don't know about the challenge between the players and the game master. The game master has a story inside his head, and it contains plots, characters, and locations. The players are playing in ''his'' world, but the plot is now dictated by ''their'' actions. It is ''very'' common for the GM to make this wonderful plot line, and then to have the players accidentally (unbeknownst to their knowledge) kill a crucial figure, thus destroying the intricate events the GM had planned. ''This is the challenge, and fun, of roleplaying games.'' Sure, game masters can say "uh, don't do that", but that is generally vilified: players don't want to play a game ''on the rails'', where their actions are constrained to set points and results - they want the plot to revolve around them, for they are the reason the game is being played.

In "Lexicon the RPG", we are all players, but we are also all game masters. We game master the entries we write, presumably with a world view, but then the other players pervert our ideas with their own course of action. As game masters, we're constrained by the rules to ''accept'' what the players do with our ideas - as players, we're vindicated knowing we're not ''on the rails''.

With all that said, I do agree, however, that the three entries immediately before midnight is a very bad and slippery slope: going back to the RPG, it'd be like the game master inventing his plot line for the night's gaming session five minutes before it happens. Players ''will'' notice that you've come unprepared - the game stops being fun, and the effort stops being made.

I do think, however, that ''justification'' could be a decent advocate of ''contemplation''. One of my favorite pleasures is listening to DVD commentaries, or to read "developer notes" or "change logs" in games or computer software. They give me an extra level of enjoyment over what I own, read, or use every day. What if, for example, dibbing and writing occurs from Saturday to Thursday, and Friday is spent writing justifications for your entries in the Talk: namespace? These justifications wouldn't be plot revealing... I wouldn't explain why I suggested that Windsor Creame didn't murder Daniel Mboya, but I could reveal that the Folktown Records newspaper was inspired by children's magazines like Ranger Rick or Highlights, or that I really wanted a grey area between "wait, he worked for the paper for 12 years, and he flips out to the point of murder?!" --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 09:30, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I've sent Neel an email pointing him to this page. Perhaps he'll weigh in too. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 09:39, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

What about a mandatory OOG discussion note for each entry where each author explains any hidden subtext/gives a brief explanation of why they wrote how they did? Also, I agree a week might be too short once the enthusiasm wears off- what about requiring a draft entry at the end of the week, then a week for exploring the other new entries, looking for new opportunities to connect entries, asking questions, making suggestions, and refining your own work? --[[User:Bast ResNovae|Bast ResNovae]] 09:53, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

==A Continuing Call To Order==
The point about a discussion period is not that it takes away the room for debate, but that it fosters it. Not only can the debates still happen, but we can talk about the debates too, tell each other why we're debating in the manner that we are (if we so choose), etc. For example, I might be arguing just for the sake of argument, because I have an actual point, or because I'm trying to protect some plot nuance which is being marred.

I see your point about the RPG, and I don't want to take away from that--I want to just make sure we don't fall into pitholes of inconsistency. I also rather dislike the proliferation of so many new things without substance... who cares if Smoldock the Pinghopper fucknuzzled Gangliest Mifferfuddle III on -75/8/1 EC? Only Smoldock's girlfriend at the time, and that certainly wasn't me. I've been as guilty of the shallow invention problem as anyone, and I'm not even sure it's possible to fix now, but imagine if we decreed a rule saying that players can only create a set amount of new nomenclature per turn, or perhaps none at all. Do you think that we'd be able to get along? If you could only create one new thing to interact with the entire Ghyll world as it already exists, what would it be? That's a question which really gets you thinking, whereas the ability to create another Pluzzhucker The Hoobervlonking Ganglesmaking Fridgemagnet Collector seems to not be working as effectively. It's like being constrained by metre and rhyme in poetry--poems tend to come out better when you don't restart the basic building blocks from scratch.

In other words, I'd really like to get to know the things that are currently in Ghyll and then proceed very cautiously to investigate what we've got. For every current entry, I'm sure that there are a huge portion that have secondary ideas that the authors are hoping to expand upon later in the game, and I'd like to know them. I suppose for something like Agony Uncle I didn't actually want to know because the mystery was the best part, but I think to a great extent that was an absolutely archetypal entry. If Andelphracian Lights has to any extent fuelled the trend of creating a set of boring assed organizations and other entities then I very much regret it--I wanted to first define the toenail clipper manufacturers, the strange luminous scum that you get on the underside of some rocks in the Evesque Valley, and the strange configuration of pips that you find in Fefferberries. I don't think I can point to a single entry in the game that I've really enjoyed yet, but a handful of them show some really great promising threads that I'd love to extract and have form the proper basis of Ghyll. That's why I keep raising the idea that after the round we all vote between us which our favourite parts are, and then just stick to those and start all the rest over from scratch.

So I think that the justifications are certainly good ideas, and I'd probably support any extension to the turns' deadlines and reflection periods. But it's probably a good thing, as you've said yourself, to keep the turns fairly short as it'll force commitment from the players. If you consider my five days and five days proposal, though, note that the actual time in which we can edit is only five days, so that's less than the week that we have currently. And the ten days overall is only three days more than the current period for a turn. I don't think you can force justifications to be written on a single day--that's really restrictive and so people are just going to ignore it.

In summary: I'd like to foster out-of-game discussion of debates, restrict the shallow invention problem, instigate the five days and five days turn pattern, and require justifications to be written by players in the second five day period. I'd also like to hear what others think about these proposals. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 10:30, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

==Continuing Exasperations==
''"Or because I'm trying to protect some plot nuance which is being marred"'' worries me. If the plot nuance is only a plot nuance in your entry, then it's not a fact merely a suggestion, and you can't stop other players from taking it in their own direction. Hell, I could have said that, yes, Windsor murdered Daniel, but any scholar would be able to "introduce new facts that shade the interpretation", creating a murder mystery because of newly discovered evidence. This is the challenge, and perversion, of our ideas, our truths... the inspiration and reason to play a game is arguably more important then the rules that govern it. Give and take is a part of RPGs - ''if things progress believably'', players will ''accept'' that the villian or plot device they just killed has come back from the dead, and the game master will be back on track with his previously devised plot. Of course, accidental or idiotic disregard, say that Besq boats are made out of cake pans and not trees, is call for foul - if it's not believable, if there's no justification, then it needs to be addressed.

We have both, and always, agreed on the proliferation of namealoo and macro entries - we both believe that micro entries, as per the archetypal "Agony uncle" are stronger, and we attempted to stifle macro entries by the grey area of dates, and a plea not to create new geographic locations. These pleas seem to have fallen on deaf ears, and arguably, we're having this discussion (again) because certain players aren't seeing the grander picture, aren't visualing the future of disparity, or simply don't care enough to start inwards and work outwards. I can stare at my desk, and if I were beginning an encyclopedia, describing things within five feet of me would take a rather long time to describe, and I could do each without needing to expound on its history or place of origin.

Instead, we've now got a rather large area to work within, long running conflicts and history (which I exasperated in an attempt to shrink our geographic location, but also chose not to be formally recognized in an attempt to minimize its influence). None of this really gives me, as a scholar, and more importantly, an inhabitant, of the Ghyll world, any inspiration to wake up in the morning, drink a cup of fefferberry tea, read the week's Record, or tuck my daugher into her nursing sack.

As for timeframes, I personally think, and suspect others do as well, that deadlines should be based on anniversaries - every week, every two weeks, every Sunday, etc., etc - that'll be far easier to remember then "damn, has ten days gone by? is it Monday or Tuesday this week. oh bugge... oooO, J.Lo!". I think we're (ultimately) in agreement with our justification/discussion suggestions, as well as macro/micro. Per your suggestion, just waiting for everyone else to weigh in. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 11:13, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

A big part of the game is "The best laid plans of mice and men". I was going to introduce a really good twist to the Daniel Mboya story (and it would have both been subtle and also tied it in to something else) but there was no way I could get that into the story of a sailor from around 200 years ago, and I considered it more anti-social to have a Mexican stand-off around who took the last undibbed entry and who got to create their own from scratch, so I didn't get to add to that story. Also, [[Betrothal march]] got defined in a way that goes completely against my ideas of it. But that's where the uncertainty comes in that makes playing this different to sitting at my computer writing poor speculative fiction. --[[User:Talliesin|Talliesin]] 14:11, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

And, not targeting you (of course), the above is exactly what ''can't'' happen in these sorts of OOG discussions that Sean is proposing: if, at any time, someone says "well, this phantom I made, this is how I see it playing out", then the game ''will no longer be fun''. We'll either have people writing fiction that is exactly how others have envisioned it (where's the challenge in that? the fun of Lexicon is integration not supplication) or we'll have the scorn of players saying "wait, that's not what I said on IRC the other day - you just ruined my next turn! I thought we ''had'' this discussion!". --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 16:30, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Exactly! I'm really pleased with what happened to [[Betrothal march]] (and tri-menth), it was totally consistent with what I'd written and totally different to what I'd thought - cool.

As for my twist to the Daniel Mboya case, maybe it'll still get in there, but if it doesn't then that's just the way the game goes.

Still, if anyone dibs [[Darvekian Party]] next round I'll give their legs such a smacking! ;p~ --[[User:Talliesin|Talliesin]] 17:21, 18 Sep 2004 (EDT)

== I Simply Want The Lot Of You To Die Horribly. ==

I like the longer-turn idea. Boo to the large talk-page discussions. I got his with a poisonous dart a while ago, tense talking before I pass out. I think the EPRs are really crucial to the whole of Ghyll, as they are subtly telling you what to do. Perhaps too subtly. Perhaps even in not enough detail. Players right now have an irritating habit of both following them too heavily, and totally ignoring them. We'll soon have around 6 historical societies all centered around the Evesque Valley. It's up to the Encyclopedants to make sure that we don't have 5 different ghylls, and up the the players as a whole to make plots. Too much dissidence. My keyboard just hissed at me. Plots should be secretive in nature, and developed by a bunch of people in rapid succession. Foomistress lays down the groundwork, Foomatic builds up on the story, we see a branch, Bardude1932 builds a story on the branch. Barista makes a plot twist on the main trunk. All of this is organically happening, no sharing of plot details needed. My desk is now an odd shade of purple. There should be a lot more cohesion. --[[User:d8uv|Melik Fizzou]] 22:12, 18 Sep 2004 (EDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD ...

== On Control, Controlling People and Just Letting Go and Having FUN ==
Right, so, the game has taken an unexpected turn. Well, at least, it has for some people. Personally, it is precisely what I thought it would be. Massive, confusing, complicated and filled with entries of wildly varying focus and content. Wasn't that the damn point?

The world is not a nice, well-defined place. There are grey areas. People don't agree on many, many things. Often. I think this is accurately reflected in the Encyclopedia. What's more, I think it's the entire charm of the game. There are some entries that, in my opinion, really shine. Alas, I don't think mine are any of them. Yet. We've only been through two complete rounds. Most of us are still gettting the hang of this entire concept, not to mention the specific rules. Give it time! Be patient!

For example, I am not a professional writer, though at a weak moment in my life, I dreamed of that. So, my writing is somewhat less polished than, say, Morbus'. Still, I hold my own. Also, I fill most of my day not with writting or RPG-related thought, but with troubleshooting servers. That is what pays my bills. So, when I get the chance, I read the other entries and occasionally make notes. Mostly this is done at lunch or while I'm loading software or rebooting a server. It is haphazard and "catch as catch can". Still, I find it quite fun and very recreational. Especially when I let go of how my phantoms were being used. I assure you that Ball Lightning Liqueur was not intended to be an explosive! However, that was the risk I took making the *phantom* instead of hoarding the ne entry for myself later. In fact, after prompting some additional information (ie. a reference to the Anise Engine) which was missing, I rather enjoyed the odd turn of events. In future entries, I hope to refer back to Ball Lightning Liqueur and change the interpretation of its significance.

Of course, it *is* your game and your server and all that, so you can do whatever you want, but I think you have a much better game than you realize. Try just letting go of your own expectations for the game, its progress and its direction and having some fun. That is what the *game* component is all about, right? Having fun? That *is*, after all, why we spend so much of our free time doing this, right? Because we're all having fun?

Just a thought. --[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 12:44, 19 Sep 2004 (EDT)

== More random remarks ==

Since all of you folks are writing extensively on this matter, I thought I would take the opportunity to say, emphatically, ME TOO. :-)

What I find most delightful about writing fiction is how stories write themselves and unexpected things happen. Writing collaborative multi-perspective fictional historical fiction in this matter amplifies that to such an enormous extent that it makes it almost like real life. Positively delightful.

Someone dibbed an entry that I had practically all the way written in me brane. (I set my alarm for 11:45pm so that I could be the first to dib it. Apparently I had the volume turned down. Bah.) Them's the breaks.

And I have an entry almost completely written for something several turns in the future. I will be muchly distraught if someone else gets it. But I'm not going to try to circumvent the rules of the game for that. Although I'm sure my idea is better. ;-)

I'd like to see a moratorium on any more friken organizations/religions/secret societies/guilds/whatever, since these seem to be getting just a touch out of control. Yes, I contributed a political (I think) party to the malaise, so I'm just as much to blame.

Anyways, I guess what I'm saying is that things seem to be going roughly as I anticipated - mostly chaotic mult-track story development, evolving in wholely unexpected ways. I don't want to see more stringent control, really, although it seems that evolving rules based on problems as they come up, seems completely reasonable.

What I don't want is someone telling me that I wrote a particular entry *wrong* because it's not what the phantomer had in mind. I'm moderately sure that the things I phantomed won't turn out the way I envisioned, just as I'm sure that Morbue (damn his eyes) won't write about Cataract Road in the particular way that I had planned before he beat me to the dib. Again, them's the breaks.

I'll quit before I get as verbose as some of the rest of y'all. I should have stopped after "ME TOO."

--[[User:DrBacchus|DrBacchus]] 14:11, 19 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I'd agree that there are enough organizations and places right now. Show us some inventions, people! And I'd also agree that a "disscussion period" would lead to all sorts of pre-planning, etc. etc., and miss what seems to be, at least to me, the intention of Ghyll in the first place: People taking ideas off in unexpected directions. I had no idea what to do with betrothal march at first. What I came up with is ''interesting'', at least, and nothing like what [[User:Talliesin|Talliesin]] had in mind. And that's the intent, right?

Oh, and [[User:Talliesin|Talliesin]], don't get to attached to the Darvekian Party... --[[User:Darus Ixa|Darus Ixa]] 7:12, 19 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I didn't say there's enough places. There are 27 cities with Bindlet Ball teams, after all. :-) --[[User:DrBacchus|DrBacchus]] 06:44, 20 Sep 2004 (EDT)

You know, I could stand to have a few more cities, in particular, and more places don't seem a burden, but perhaps we need to slow down on the creation of "new" words. For instance, "Cresent Bay" is just as good a city as "Cranosticknarf", but it's not a new word for people to have learn.

OTH, I'll be damned if I'm going to stop having fun just because someone doesn't think the game is going as planned. This is the most fun I've had in months and months and I'm not going to let a stick-in-the-mud keep me from it. ^_^ --[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 07:23, 20 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Darned kids these days --[[User:DrBacchus|DrBacchus]] 07:55, 20 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Yes, we're a big short of cities, but let's hold off on inventing more unless we really need a city other than Folktown. Also, I had to break the rule and invent the [[Dagger Seas]] (probably, I'm still at first draft) since I had a sailor to describe, and nowhere for him to sail. I did opt for Dagger Seas rather than Dxorthian Seas or something else totally made up on the one hand or Really-Stormy-In-The-South-Calm-In-The-North-Good-Fishing-During-The-Warmer-Seasons Seas on the other. Dagger's a normal word, but I can think about half a dozen completely different reasons why seas might be called such without really trying, so hopefully whoever gets it will do something good with it. --[[User:Talliesin|Talliesin]] 08:06, 20 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I'm pretty sure "Dagger" means "Really-Stormy-In-The-South-Calm-In-The-North-Good-Fishing-During-The-Warmer-Seasons" in some dialect or other. ;-) --[[User:DrBacchus|DrBacchus]] 08:26, 20 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Well, if you hold a dagger with the blade down, and consider down to be south, then the blade represents the stormy part of the sea and the hilt represents calm...

Just an observation. --[[User:Darus Ixa|Darus Ixa]]

Everyone else is chiming in, so I might as well. Rather than just a "me too," I'll say that the good [[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] summed up my opinion pretty well. The "fun" of the game (for me) is precisely the lack of control. I think an OOG "talk" page for everyone to hash out where things *should* go in the story is the wrong answer. However, I also share the concern of others over the rampant, implicit, creation via new nomenclature spread through-out an entry. I'd like to see more focus on filling in existing loose threads. How do we get there from here, and keep things fun? First, stop the hemorrhaging. I suggest a rule (or merely a suggestion with the backing reasoning) on the front page for all to see that says something like:
<pre>
"Please do not needlessly create places/people/organisations/etc... in your entries beyond
the subject of the entry and your two phantoms. It is the desire of many of the players
to have a cohesive Ghyll, and that is difficult when every entry mentions, without really
defining, something like "Blorflmancy," "squidgeroos," and "Nimdick The Uptight" when none
of them are the subject of the entry, nor its phantoms. Please keep Occam's Razor in mind
(i.e. entities should not be multiplied needlessly). If you feel you really have need,
go ahead and add, but before you do, see if there is anything else in Ghyll all ready
which could serve your purpose just as well as some new invention. If there is, use
that instead, and help us get a handle on keeping Ghyll fun and connected. Thanks."
</pre>
After that, I think simple encouragement via subtle, or not so subtle proddings in each Progress Report should begin to pull us back to a more cohesive story. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 19:58, 20 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Encyclopedant Calendar

2004-09-15T02:04:29Z

Qwentyth Pyre: Busine date name change, and one clarification

To nurture the creation of a Ghyll Encyclopedia that will be of use to all of Ghyll's citizens, the Encyclopedants--key editors, and instigators of the encyclopaedic effort--are taking certain measures to ensure that some regional variations are ''normalised'' to canonical systems. One of the regional variations that the Encyclopedants have felt it foremost necessary to address is that of dates and times.

What this means to scholars is that when you submit entries that contain dates and times in a regional system, you will be asked (if we can get a message back to you) to provide them instead in the Encylopedant Calendar. It is the aim of this notice to define that calendar, and provide you with tips on the conversion. Should it be impossible for you to be contacted, the Encyclopedants will take up the changes themselves, attempting to provide normalisations where possible, and omitting dates otherwise.

==The Encyclopedant Calendar==

<div style="background-color:#eee;border:1px solid #ccc;float:right;margin:1em;padding:0.5em;width:275px;"><strong>EC Linking Shortcut</strong>: When using EC dates in your entries, always use the special <nowiki>{{EC}}</nowiki> syntax to link back to this page. For example, typing "<nowiki>-20 {{EC}}</nowiki>'" will produce the proper text, as well as an automatic link back to this explanation and timeline (below).</div>

The Encyclopedant Calendar (EC) is based on years, months, weeks, days, hours, minutes, and seconds. There are sixty seconds to a minute, sixty minutes to an hour, twenty-four hours to a day, seven days to a week, four weeks to a month, and a dozen months to a year. Hence there are three hundred and thirty six days in a year, as corresponds with a full rotation of our seasons.

The epoch for the Encyclopedant Calendar, i.e. 0 EC, is based on the date that the call for entries was first set forth over the fair lands of Ghyll. Hence, the first year of the creation of the Ghyll Encyclopedia will take place throughout 0 EC. Since scholars will generally be mentioning dates only when they have occured before the creation of the dictionary, it is expected that dates prior to 0 EC will be most heavily represented in entries: the syntax for doing so is to use a negative number for the amount of years. Note that -1 EC is the year before the creation of the Ghyll Encyclopaedia. It is expected that the first round of definitions for the twenty six letters of the alphabet will take one EC year to complete, and hence the next time we call for definitions of words beginning with "A" is predicted to occur at the start of 1 EC.

To identify a Ghyll month, use the year followed by a slash followed by the number of the month. Likewise, for a day, use the year followed by a slash followed by the number of the month followed by another slash followed by the day. ''Example: the fifth day of the seventh month of -20 EC would be written as -20/7/5 EC.'' For the names of individual months and days, consult the [[Bursine Calendar]] (on which the EC is based).

==Ghyll Timeline==

In order to aid scholars' abilities to convert their regional dates into EC, the Encyclopedants have taken it upon themselves to research the dates for the events described in the first set of entires received for the letter "A". It has been a painstaking and laborious process, but it should enable scholars to more easily research the EC date for events that they describe. The timeline is as follows:

<table class="ghyllidx" style="padding-left:1em;">
<tr><th>Date</th><th>Ghyll Event</th></tr>
<tr bgcolor="#eee"><td>-??,???,??? EC</td><td>The Avazian civilization falls.</td></tr>
<tr bgcolor="#eee"><td>-10,000,000 EC</td><td>(Circa) Common ancestors to Ghyll humanoids and [[Burnflies]] roam the planet.</td></tr>
<tr bgcolor="#eee"><td>-900 EC</td><td>The [[Nitenmangrey]] culture became extinct.</td></tr>
<tr bgcolor="#eee"><td>-400 EC</td><td>Primitive forms of [[Bindlet Ball]] have been discovered in art of this period.</td></tr>
<tr bgcolor="#eee"><td>-400 to -323 EC</td><td>(Circa) The [[Battle of Barnum Stones]] takes place.</td></tr>
<tr bgcolor="#eee"><td>-330 EC</td><td>Birth of Andelphracia.</td></tr>
<tr bgcolor="#eee"><td>-300 EC</td><td>Andelphracia and Quezlar 6 were active in this period.</td></tr>
<tr bgcolor="#eee"><td>-280 EC</td><td>[[Arariax]] the poet was born in the [[Evesque Valley]].</td></tr>
<tr bgcolor="#eee"><td>-??? EC</td><td>The [[Brothers of the Lantern]] school is established (exact date unknown).</td></tr>
<tr bgcolor="#eee"><td>-200 EC</td><td>''Historical records before this point are difficult to decipher.''</td></tr>
<tr><td>-192 EC</td><td>Birth of [[Captain Riquiras]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-180 EC</td><td>[[Berell]] is rumored to have left the [[Brothers of the Lantern]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-172 EC</td><td>Earliest recorded drawings of [[Besq Boats]] date from this time period.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-158 EC</td><td>The [[Battle of Barnum Stones|Barnum Stones]] are moved to Stindersgrough by Corvin Axehand.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-157 EC</td><td>Death of [[Captain Riquiras]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-150 EC</td><td>Earliest known use of the phrase "[[Andelphracian Lights]]".</td></tr>
<tr><td>-150 EC</td><td>(Circa) Alarius published "Stepping Stones", considered one of his greatest poems.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-100 EC</td><td>The [[Brothers of the Lantern]] begin to specialize in four classical subjects.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-98 EC</td><td>[[Supetupheraraphes]] founds the [[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-98 EC</td><td>[[Supetupheraraphes]] becomes President of the [[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-77 EC</td><td>[[Meldersen]] becomes President of the [[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-70 EC</td><td>Two transcriptions of the Echecharion are known to exist.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-62/7/11 EC</td><td>Birth of [[Baron Claude Lloyd Albert Smallwood]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-60 EC</td><td>(Circa) The current form of [[Bindlet Ball]], based on [[Awal shrinkage]], starts.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-58 EC</td><td>Birth of Windsor Creame.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-58 EC</td><td>Birth of [[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]], scholar.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-56 EC</td><td>Rancticirchiretic becomes President of the [[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-54 EC</td><td>Ghyll Bindlet League, for [[Bindlet Ball]], is founded.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-53 EC</td><td>The [[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]]'s Steering Committee begins using three oxen in its motif.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-50 EC</td><td>[[Ball Lightning Liqueur]] and "Awal Sleeps" begin to see common usage.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-46 EC</td><td>Brother ([[Brothers of the Lantern|of the Lantern]]) Honuphrius denounces [[Arariax]]'s early/middle poems.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-38 EC</td><td>Incumbent Folktown mayor loses re-election; purportedly prefers another [[Bindlet Ball]] team.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-32 EC</td><td>Awal becomes President of the [[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-25/4/1 EC</td><td>H.A.N.D.B.A.G. petitions the [[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]] and is ignored.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-20 EC</td><td>Death of [[Edvard von Craghelm]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-19 EC</td><td>[[Bindlet Ball]], Its Rules And History published (Aliens Press, 964 pages).</td></tr>
<tr><td>-18 EC</td><td>Birth of Gibbous Saunders.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-17 EC</td><td>The [[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]]'s motto is translated, and quickly changed.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-14 EC</td><td>An act is passed that prohibits professional [[Bindlet Ball]] players from running for political office.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-14 EC</td><td>[[Bobby Shwarmph]] publishes paper in [[Brothers of the Lantern]] scholarly journal.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-13 EC</td><td>[[Folktown Records]] weekly newspaper founded, Ulfsday, the 22nd of Conti.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-11 EC</td><td>[[Doggerel plague]] sweeps parts of Ghyll.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-11 EC</td><td>Blivingdel becomes President of the [[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-11 EC</td><td>Much-publicised marriage of artist Siam Sinch and statesman Gabson Foye.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-11 EC</td><td>First, often revealing, [[lumogram]]s of [[Bethany Mboya]] released.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-9 EC</td><td>First writings, in the form of small pamphlets, by [[Bethany Mboya]] released.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-8 EC</td><td>Birth of Morphous Ibb.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-8 EC</td><td>Windsor Creame weds [[Bavarian Creame]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-7 EC</td><td>The longest, and still in the 4th period, [[Bindlet Ball]] game starts.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-4/7/22 EC</td><td>Last known appearance of [[Bobby Shwarmph]].</td></tr>
<tr><td>-2 EC</td><td>[[Bethany Mboya]] exposed by Gabson Foye.</td></tr>
<tr><td>0 EC</td><td>Ghyll Encyclopedia founded.</td></tr>
</table>

==Folktown Records History==

<div style="background-color:#eee;border:1px solid #ccc;float:right;margin:1em;padding:0.5em;width:275px;"><strong>FR Editions Script</strong>: To convert the number of a Folktown Records edition into an EC date, you can use the [http://inamidst.com/misc/folkrec/250 online script]. Just replace the number in the URI (the Web address) with the one that you want the EC date of.</div>

From the first set of entries received for the Encyclopaedia, it is clear that many dates are stated indirectly using Folktown Records edition numbers. Since the Folktown Records has only been running since -13 EC, this only works for recent events, but those are the events most relevant to the inhabitants of Ghyll today, and the Folktown Records are common and popular enough that we can expect more excerpts from them in entries to come. As the editions of Folktown Records have been produced without fail every week from -13/3/22, we can provide the following dates for landmark issues:

<table class="ghyllidx" style="padding-left:1em;">
<tr><th>Date</th><th>Folktown Records Event</th></tr>
<tr><td>-13/3/22 EC</td><td>The 1st edition of the Folktown Records (FR1).</td></tr>
<tr><td>-12/4/1 EC</td><td>The 50th edition of the Folktown Records (FR50).</td></tr>
<tr><td>-12 EC</td><td>Windsor Creame joins the writing staff.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-11/4/15 EC</td><td>The 100th edition of the Folktown Records (FR100).</td></tr>
<tr><td>-9/5/15 EC</td><td>The 200th edition of the Folktown Records (FR200).</td></tr>
<tr><td>-8/6/1 EC</td><td>The 250th edition of the Folktown Records (FR250).</td></tr>
<tr><td>-7/6/15 EC</td><td>The 300th edition of the Folktown Records (FR300).</td></tr>
<tr><td>-7/9/15 EC</td><td>Gibbous Saunders [[AuroAnthropology|writes]] to FR312. Managing Editor: Garth Haversham.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-5/7/15 EC</td><td>The 400th edition of the Folktown Records (FR400).</td></tr>
<tr><td>-3/8/15 EC</td><td>The 500th edition of the Folktown Records (FR500).</td></tr>
<tr><td>-2/1/8 EC</td><td>FR519 conjectures about [[Bobby Shwarmph]]'s possible death.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-1/4/1 EC</td><td>Morphous Ibb [[Quezlarian numerals|writes]] to FR578. Tim Timperton responds.</td></tr>
<tr><td>-1/9/15 EC</td><td>The 600th edition of the Folktown Records (FR600).</td></tr>
<tr><td>0/1/1</td><td>Ghyll Encyclopedia founding coincides with FR614.</td></tr>
</table>

Note also that the following dates are currently unknown:
*[[User:Joe_Bowers|Mr. Bowers]] had a series entitled "Ersatz Bite: False Teeth through Time" published.
* The current owners of the Folktown Records are of the [[Amphitheatre aristocracy|Amphitheatre Elite]].

Ghyll talk:Bursine Calendar

2004-09-15T01:56:50Z

Qwentyth Pyre: minor correction to my own date assumptions.

==Out-Of-Game Discussion==

Just to make out of game "real-world" dates and in game "{{EC}}" dates reconcilabile, I've matched "tuesday" to the real world "tuesday" and the beginning of Ablinth 0 {{EC}} just happens to correspond with the beginning of September 2004 in the real world. The years and months will eventually drift, with the Ghyllian year and months being shorter than the Earth one, but now we have a colloquial way to refer to specific days of the week and make reference to days and dates of researcher activity. Enjoy! --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 00:32, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

<blockquote><p>Bursine the 14th made a gift of the calendar to his Paramount Queen, Litivia, on their joining day.</p></blockquote>

I can just imagine the conversation...

<blockquote>
<div>Bursine: Here you go dear, I made you a calendar!</div>
<div>Litivia: A calendar? I really wanted a new fridge freezer, but okay... who's it of?</div>
<div>Bursine: No dear, you don't understand--I mean a calendar ''system''.</div>
<div>Litivia: [stare]</div>
</blockquote>

I note that your entry doesn't say for how long they were joined [grin]. Hmm... so 0/1/1 {{EC}} was an Ulfsday? Okay... it should be possible to work out all the other days from that. Good careful point about the "aesthetic liberties", incidentally. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 01:12, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Actually: another important point is that since we take a Ghyll year to do each round, we measure the time in Ghyll according to that. In other words, today in Ghyll is actually somewhere between the evening of 0/1/12 {{EC}} (i.e. 1/26 of the way through the Ghyll year) and the early evening of 0/1/25 {{EC}} (i.e. 2/26 of the way through the Ghyll year). Morbus and I had a [http://swhack.com/logs/2004-09-03#T17-48-57 bit of discussion] on the issue which you might like to read; it's not particularly straightforward, but hopefully we'll be able to keep on top of it and just publish the date, and the rest of you won't have to worry about it. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 01:24, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Thanks for the copy editing and nitpicking folks. Appreciated. And yes, the Bursine/Litiva conversation probably did go something like that. ;-) I'm sure somebody else will fill in those details later. ;-) --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 16:00, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Gee, maybe someone who knows PHP could write a script that would do the calculations? --[[User:PhineasCrank|Doctor Phineas Crank]] 08:16, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Phineas - a script does exist, tied into the [http://inamidst.com/misc/folkrec/250 Folktown Records release dates] (just change the number in the URL to the FR issue you'd like to know the date of). If every FR is released on an Ulfsday (as per the discussion on [[Talk:Encyclopedant Calendar]], you can infer any other dates from that (just find the FR release nearest toward your intended date, and then count forward or backwards). --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 08:34, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Bursine Calendar

2004-09-15T01:52:54Z

Qwentyth Pyre: The first month is Ablinth, not Ikk

The Bursine Calendar is so named for Bursine the 14th, an otherwise unremarkable [[Hive-Lord]] of the [[Nitenmangrey]]. Bursine the 14th made a gift of the calendar to his [[Paramount Queen]], Litivia, on their joining day. While any other great works he may have forged have been forgotten by time, his calendar has survived. I applaud the Encyclopedants for adopting it into their new {{EC}} notation for this project's [[Encyclopedant Calendar]] with nothing more than a reset of the zero year. The old counting system was getting quite unwieldy, so I deem this an acceptable change.

For those unfamiliar with the specific names of the days of the week and months of the year in the old Bursine Calendar (as well as the new dating system adopted by the Encyclopedants for this great work), allow me to list them for you.

'''Days of the Week''': Tuesday, Ulfsday, Varhookan, Ween, Xarochsday, YinYin, Zalestra.

'''Months of the Year''':

# Ablinth
# Baros
# Conti
# Darwina
# E
# Fusil
# Gomin
# Homin
# Ikk
# Jole
# Kendrit
# Lom

Therefore, today's date in {{EC}} reckoning of 0/1/12 {{EC}} is also "YinYin, the 12th of Ablinth of the year 0." I think the old date and day names have much more personality than the dry numerical notation, so I will attempt to use them both in my future entries, and I hope my fellow researchers will as well.

One additional note of interest about the Bursine Calendar is that the best minds of Ghyll still have no idea why, when rendered into core script as I've done above, the days of the week, and months of the year fall into alphabetic order. Core script clearly post-dates the [[Nitenmangrey]] by at least a few centuries, so either Bursine himself could see into the future and crafted an elaborate joke for us, or more likely, the original translator of the Bursine Calendar into core script took some aesthetic liberties.

'''Citations''': [[Encyclopedant Calendar]], [[Hive-Lord]], [[Paramount Queen]].

--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 00:29, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

[[Category:Other]]

Ghyll talk:Encyclopedant Calendar

2004-09-15T01:51:01Z

Qwentyth Pyre: We are both right and wrong and learn a valuable lesson.

==Out-Of-Game Discussion==

So, somebody please check my math here, but I believe that makes the first edition of the folktown records published on Varhookan the 22nd of Kendrit, -13. If the Encyclopedants would please check my math, we can confirm that the weekly paper (if it comes out on the same day every week) comes out every Varhookan.

For reference, my calculations were as follows. 0/1/1 (the start of the encyclopedia) was Ulfsday in Ikk. The first paper was -13/3/22. So, we need to go back 13 full years, then forward 2 months and 21 days. (Note, that's 2 and 21, *not* 3 and 22. Have to be careful with negative date years and off by one counting errors) So, 13 years x 336 days/year = 4374 days backwards. 2 months x 28 days per month = 56 days forward, plus an extra 21 days = 77 days forward. 77 is an obvious multiple of 7 ( a full week ) so can be ignored. We want a partial week offset to determine day of the week relative to Ulfsday. 7 divided into 4374 yields 624 with a remainder of 6. This is actually -6 since we were dividing into negative days, and 6 days before Ulfsday is the same as one day after, which yields Varhookan.

The month is much easier. Complete years can be ignored so -13/3/22 is 2 month-names ahead of 0/1/1. If we are currently in Ikk, that makes the first paper published on Varhookan the 22nd of Kendrit, -13.

--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]]

Excellent work, and I'm very impressed, but in fact -13/3/22 EC is Ulfsday the 22nd of Conti. I think the problem is that you're taking the day before 0/1/1 to be -1/1/1, when actually it's -1/12/28 which makes the calculation a ''lot'' simpler.

The first edition of Folktown Records to be mentioned is 578 in [[Quezlarian Numerals]], and since that was our initial test entry written roughly nine months ago (which we jokingly refer to as Ghyll period of gestation), I decided that the FR edition released on 0/1/1 EC should be the one released nine Ghyll months after 578, i.e. [http://inamidst.com/misc/folkrec/614 FR 614] (36 weeks, and hence editions, later). As we know that 0/1/1 is an Ulfsday, that means that all FR editions must be released on an Ulfsday, so no maths need be involved. Sorry! Again, though, excellent effort.

--[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 22:39, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ahh, we are both right, and wrong. My math is correct (you are incorrect in assuming I thought the day before 0/1/1 was -1/1/1. My math works as it should). Your Ulfsday to Ulfsday logic confirms I did the day to day conversion math right, but your way is much easier. ;-) Where I am incorrect is in declaring that we are currently in Ikk, and using that as my base to calculate from. We are, of course, currently in Ablinth. I will make that correction in the main Bursine Calendar page. Taking that into account, our dates match up. The first FR was published on Ulfsday the 22nd of Conti, and is therefore an Ulfsday weekly paper. Neato! Thanks for the catch. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 21:51, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll talk:Bysted Timperton

2004-09-14T22:41:30Z

Qwentyth Pyre:

My research shows Bobby wemt into seclusion a few years ago after an ill-fated expedition to the ruins of Alezan, he hasn't been seen by anyone other than Easy Lizzard since- although he does maintain an active correspondence. It is possible this exchange was not made face to face, but through some other medium. It is also possible Bysted was actually speaking to a body double hired for the purpose of the interview, but I never found any proof such doubles are employed by Mr Shwarmph. --[[User:Bast ResNovae|Bast ResNovae]] 08:31, 13 Sep 2004

Please sign your entries. Who said the above? (Presumably, Bast ResNovae, and thus, I'm adding that signature). Eiither way, yep, they have a point. Your entry will need to be revised somehow. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 08:34, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Sorry- when I try to sign entries, all I get is a squiggle- how do I change this? I have to copy and paste in other people's stamps, then make changes manually right now. --[[User:Bast ResNovae|Bast ResNovae]] 08:38, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

The squiggle is actually magick... when you "Show preview", you'll see how it gets expanded to the right information automatically. However, this'll only work properly if you're actually signed in. Without being signed in, you'll just show your IP address. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 08:50, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Actually, Robbi was going to be yelled at by sbp about this article today, and was going to fix anything wrong with it. This is First Draft, not Final Article. --[[User:D8uv|Melik Fizzou]] 08:57, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

The "yelling" [http://swhack.com/logs/2004-09-14#T02-16-00 took place] on Swhack. The summary is that it would be nice if there could be more substance for what it rather a pivotal entry. If you're going to dib entries that have a central role in the current Ghyll milieu, you're taking on quite an added responsibility; I have a feeling that Robbi didn't realise that at the time. Nontheless, his effort is appreciated. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 22:44, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Hey, speaking as a newbie, it takes a bit for a newbie to get the hang of things... I think you've got to post _something_ and get it wrong and get that feedback. It's just part of the learning curve. That's why we can edit, right, to ID then iron out where things need tweaking? --[[User:Bast ResNovae|Bast ResNovae]] 23:42, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Robbi's first turn caused an hour long discussion over the meaning of just one of its sentences, which we had to take some care in repairing, and which was quite different to the minor edits that all the other posts required. Note that we're still in the very early stages of the game, only the second turn, and that Robbi was there from the beginning so can hardly be considered a newbie: when his initial post was clearly going to cost us a lot of time in integrating properly with the rest of the world, we gave him quite a lot of feedback, and are just wary that this is going to be a continuing trend. For this particular entry, our fears have been assuaged since he's decided to transfer the authorship of the post over to [[User:D8uv|Melik Fizzou]].

I've known Robbi for about half a year now, through d8uv, and so socially this is quite a different situation to what would happen if this were some random player: Robbi owes rather a lot for the stress he's placed on everyone around him for the past months! --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 00:07, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I wouldn't assuage them just yet, since I'll probably mess it all up in my own spectacular fashion. I'd rather not write this, because I know that others will write a lot better entry. However, I'm the only one here who hasn't written this turn. Oh well. I'd hate to have someone write twicely because of this. Furthermore, neither myself or Robbi really knew how crucial Bysted was to the Ghyll Lexicon. Oh well. --[[User:D8uv|Melik Fizzou]] 00:27, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Just aas a suggestion for figuring out how crucial soemthing is, in addition to checking "what links here" for a phantom, I frequently use the search box to find *any* mention of the phantom I'm about to write. They are frequently mentioned in places without being links. That way, I make sure I've read the most recent version of statments about my subject. Hope that helps. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 18:41, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll talk:Quezlarian Numerals

2004-09-13T06:14:40Z

Qwentyth Pyre: A new voice enters the fray

All new pages to be capitalised properly by decree of sbp now, k thx. If you see any phantoms that are going to cause problems in the future, please fix them! --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 18:43, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Is "Roman numerals" capitalized? That's was the whole point of this entry, ten months ago. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 19:23, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Incidentally, are you advocating all pages be all ucwords? Why? I'm not sure that's right. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 19:24, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

In seeing your other comments, it looks like you are. I'm steadfastly against it. Some things are just not proper names. "Awal shrinkage" should not be capitalized, any more than the "Luminous text". The distinction I've seen, and have been keeping conscious of, is between proper names and not. Bobby Shwarmph yes, Awal shrinkage, no. So, all references to "Council for Quezlarian Research" now needs a capital "For"? Forcing ucwords on all wiki pages is the equivalent, IMO, of CamelCase. The removal of CamelCase in wikis, one of the "good things", was to make reading entries better and more English like. Implementing a forced ucword seems backwards: another arbitrary decision that breaks the rules of English, imposed because one player can't keep things straight. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 19:30, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

In fact, it's the opposite: I can't keep them straight because they break the rules of English! The rationale is that the page names form the titles of the entries, and "[i]n most house styles, all the major words in an English title are capitalized — 'major' meaning the first word, the last word, and everything in between except articles, conjunctions, and prepositions" - [http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/t.html#titles Lynch on Titles] (which means that the "for" in your example doesn't need to be capitalised). In-page references probably should be capitalised normally though. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 19:31, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

But therein lies the rub: how are we actually ''using'' the page titles? In most cases, they're being used inside a sentence, so the natural inclination of a person is the follow the non-title rules of English, as we've been doing. I think it's absolutely insane to force users to link to a page one way (ucwords) and then force (or, for the grammatically annoying, do ourselves) a different title for the link itself through the use of wiki syntax. The intent of wikis is to colloborate on the body of entries, and that's where all concessions should take place: in making it easier for the user to do what needs to be done. Users are thinking in sentences, not titles, and requiring them to redouble their efforts by thinking ''both ways'' (one for the link, one for the title) is obscene. Although a lack of (immediately findable) written policy, this appears to be how Wikipedia handles it (Mushroom_cloud, Nuclear_weapon) and also [http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=3235 Encyclopedia Britannica]. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 19:52, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

The most concessionlessful approach would be to have <nowiki>[[Quezlarian numerals]]</nowiki> look up similar page titles in the wiki, and link to any that share its case. But in the absence of that, I'd rather do what's ''correct'' English than to have people be lazy; by extension, your argument says that it's alright to use txt spk in entries, leave out punctuation and apostrophes, and not capitalise anywhere since that's easier for the user too. Why have people link at all--too difficult! Our highly academic and scholarly lexicon has been a shining example of pedantry since its inception--correct quoting style, the Morbus removing whitespace hither and thither, anality in every nook and cranny--and this construct should not be any different. Therefore, we ought to use a <nowiki>[[Quezlarian Numerals|Quezlarian numerals]]</nowiki> [Changing over to BBC World Service! Rise for the national anthem!] syntax throughout the wiki. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 20:03, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I disagree - I see no reason to make the lives of our users more difficult, or to fly in the face of tradition. Similarly, your argument about txt spk is absolutely retarded - it'd only stand to reason if, in fact, our users were doing that already - people aren't going to "devolve" into morons regardless of this decision - they will, however, have to make conscious effort to jump out of the sentence and into titling and wiki syntax. Forcing them to break with sentence trandition, to think about syntax and not their ''fiction'', and to train them the incorrect way to contribute to the Wikipedia, or to suggest that the Britannica is "wrong" is, IMO, damaging in the extreme. I mean, sure, we're pretty smart fellows, but breaking with 100 years of encyclopedia tradition seems absolutely high and mighty. Remember the goal here: we're making a Lexicon, and in traditional examples, there are no "page titles" - just text entries. We shouldn't, just like Clean URIs, make a decision on naming or titling because of our technology (where every term is a page). Quite frankly, I've already got a zillion more important babysitting tasks to accomplish then to schoolmarm sentences into proper constructs because there's no clear indication that, yes, you're writing a sentence, but no, think about titles in your body. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 20:32, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

A hundred years of encyclopaedia tradition? You should've polled some more encyclopaedias rather than just finding two that support your point of view: the [http://www.iep.utm.edu/s/skepanci.htm IEP], [http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CHphysical.htm Encyclopaedia of British History], and [http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aesthetic-judgment/ Stanford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy] don't follow the "convention"--just from the first two pages of Google results for "encyclopaedia". As for having a zillion more important tasks than schoolmarming sentences, I direct you to your own [http://gamegrene.com/wiki/?title=Encyclopedant_Calendar&curid=790&diff=666&oldid=494 Accidentally clicked here, so decided to be some of TEH ANEL] diff--the first change in which is you correcting the "Folktown Records event" heading to "Folktown Records Event"! And I'm not forcing them to break with sentence tradition at all: they're having to make links anyway, so they might as well make proper ones.

Perhaps we should throw this open to a vote, since we're clearly not going to agree between ourselves, and I'm confident of my position. What say ye? --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 20:56, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Well, DrBacchus's [http://gamegrene.com/wiki/?title=Bindlet_Ball&curid=847&diff=0&oldid=795 recent change] is an interesting one: he changed "Awal shrinkage" to "awal shrinkage" and it redirected properly still. Is that because of a redirect on the page? [[Awal Shrinkage]] doesn't seem to go anywhere. If that is the case, we can set the redirects up ourselves... but DrBacchus has also demonstrated just how confusing this whole thing is, since his change seems to be erroneous: in the original article, "Awal" is capitalised throughout. I'll revert his change. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 21:11, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Nope - MediaWiki automatically capitalizes the first letter of all wiki links, and this has been a bone of contention - as far as I know, there's a bug report running around for it to stop. As for "Awal shrinkage", in this case, it should be capitalized because, as we both know, it's the name of a person. As for the Folktown Record Event, I'm surprised you're considering that a good example: those are headers to a table, irregardless of technology or page titles. Concerning the vote, do whatever the hell you want, but if it passes, it becomes your responsibility to correct all the sentences, including my own. Regarding the polling of two supporting encyclopedia, honestly, I didn't poll or check others: I thought of the two that were the most well-known, in my head. Non-committally, perhaps they've trained ''me'' the wrong way, though I still find the extended wiki syntax effort daunting, unnecessary, and intrusive. Unfortunately, of your choices, I only "recognize" one (and by the Stanford name alone) which, naturally, doesn't invalidate their import. It doesn --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 21:52, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

doesn? Did you have more to say, before I reply? --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 22:27, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Huh. I have no clue what that is. Sounds like an unfinished thought, left behind due to the allure of a paused X-File. Please go on. Oh! And yes, we can setup any redirect we want - I believe the syntax is something like #REDIRECT [term or URL]. You can actually see that in use [http://gamegrene.com/wiki/?title=Quezlarian_numerals&redirect=no on the previous Quez pages]. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 22:40, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Well I think that if Ghyll is to survive and prosper, we need to have a lot more anality from all of its players. I'd like to see ten people as anal as you, not just you going around and making those careful changes. If that happens, we're going to need to have a consensus: if everybody decides that properly capitalised titles are the way to go, I don't see why you should want to do the opposite unless you're wanting to sulk or fall into a dictatorship. When you opened this up to other players than just us to, you acknowledged that it's going to be a large team effort. Perhaps you just meant you'd make the mistake automatically because that's your natural inclination, but again I think you should put the effort in to be anal in a way that the Ghyll scholars vote to agree upon, as well as your own particular analities.

On the other hand, you could start closing the wiki up to give you a greater control over it. And I really wouldn't mind that (I've been favouring it more and more lately; it'd make things so much easier from a consistency point of view, and I'm not fully enamoured with the Ghyll world as its developing), but I don't think that ''you'' want that.

As a third path, we might set the redirects up and then let people choose either method, but do we really want inconsistency for the sake of flexibility? --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 00:08, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

As a new player who has no history with Ghyll before this project started almost 2 weeks ago, I speak only for myself. I really don't care what is decided here, as long as something is. I know I can follow instructions if those instructions are clear, and I'm sure the other players can too. For my own writing, in my first post about [[Aelfants]] I use the term "Alezanian" in my text which actually links to the [[Alezanians]] entry. I needed the singular for my text, so I did the link modification thing. There will always be cases when a writer wants to link a term that is not the precise spelling or form of the entry's title. We can and do work around this. In the case of "case" however, this seems a bit of needless overhead. Let computers do what computers do well to free the humans for the creativity. If I had my druthers, links would be completely case '''insensitive'''. I'd love if the wiki could send "Aelfants," "AELFANTS," and "aElFaNtS" all to the same entry. This allows the writer maximum flexibility while writing. Writers shouldn't have to concern themselves with the case of the linked entry. In their writing, perhaps they have a reason to do some wacky capitalisation. Case insensitive matching shouldn't be too hard to hack into the wiki code. If you accept that, the problem becomes much more tractable. It then is merely a question of what you, (the creators of the game) want as a canonical form for entry titles. Whatever that turns out to be, all the scholars will honor, it will be easy to fix the strays that happen accidentally, anyone can write their links with whatever capitalisation is correct within the context of their entries, and the anal-retentive grammar-checkers can be happy with merely reviewing content, and not canonical link correctness. Less work for everybody, writers get maximum flexability, and entries all get some kind of standard, even if that standard is "it doesn't matter because all the links will work anyway." Jesse a.k.a. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 02:14, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll talk:Encyclopedant Calendar

2004-09-12T20:44:50Z

Qwentyth Pyre: Varhookan the 22nd of Kendrit, -13. - Day and month of first publication

So, somebody please check my math here, but I believe that makes the first edition of the folktown records published on Varhookan the 22nd of Kendrit, -13. If the Encyclopedants would please check my math, we can confirm that the weekly paper (if it comes out on the same day every week) comes out every Varhookan.

For reference, my calculations were as follows. 0/1/1 (the start of the encyclopedia) was Ulfsday in Ikk. The first paper was -13/3/22. So, we need to go back 13 full years, then forward 2 months and 21 days. (Note, that's 2 and 21, *not* 3 and 22. Have to be careful with negative date years and off by one counting errors) So, 13 years x 336 days/year = 4374 days backwards. 2 months x 28 days per month = 56 days forward, plus an extra 21 days = 77 days forward. 77 is an obvious multiple of 7 ( a full week ) so can be ignored. We want a partial week offset to determine day of the week relative to Ulfsday. 7 divided into 4374 yields 624 with a remainder of 6. This is actually -6 since we were dividing into negative days, and 6 days before Ulfsday is the same as one day after, which yields Varhookan.

The month is much easier. Complete years can be ignored so -13/3/22 is 2 month-names ahead of 0/1/1. If we are currently in Ikk, that makes the first paper published on Varhookan the 22nd of Kendrit, -13.

Ghyll talk:Bursine Calendar

2004-09-12T20:00:48Z

Qwentyth Pyre:

==Out-Of-Game Discussion==

Just to make out of game "real-world" dates and in game "{{EC}}" dates reconcilabile, I've matched "tuesday" to the real world "tuesday" and "Ikk"=="September." The years will eventually drift, with the Ghyllian year being shorter than the earth one, but now we have a colloquial way to refer to specific days of the week and make reference to days and dates of researcher activity. Enjoy! --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 00:32, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

<blockquote><p>Bursine the 14th made a gift of the calendar to his Paramount Queen, Litivia, on their joining day.</p></blockquote>

I can just imagine the conversation...

<blockquote>
<div>Bursine: Here you go dear, I made you a calendar!</div>
<div>Litivia: A calendar? I really wanted a new fridge freezer, but okay... who's it of?</div>
<div>Bursine: No dear, you don't understand--I mean a calendar ''system''.</div>
<div>Litivia: [stare]</div>
</blockquote>

I note that your entry doesn't say for how long they were joined [grin]. Hmm... so 0/1/1 {{EC}} was an Ulfsday? Okay... it should be possible to work out all the other days from that. Good careful point about the "aesthetic liberties", incidentally. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 01:12, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Actually: another important point is that since we take a Ghyll year to do each round, we measure the time in Ghyll according to that. In other words, today in Ghyll is actually somewhere between the evening of 0/1/12 {{EC}} (i.e. 1/26 of the way through the Ghyll year) and the early evening of 0/1/25 {{EC}} (i.e. 2/26 of the way through the Ghyll year). Morbus and I had a [http://swhack.com/logs/2004-09-03#T17-48-57 bit of discussion] on the issue which you might like to read; it's not particularly straightforward, but hopefully we'll be able to keep on top of it and just publish the date, and the rest of you won't have to worry about it. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 01:24, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Thanks for the copy editing and nitpicking folks. Appreciated. And yes, the Bursine/Litiva conversation probably did go something like that. ;-) I'm sure somebody else will fill in those details later. ;-)
--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 16:00, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll talk:Bobby Shwarmph

2004-09-12T04:41:38Z

Qwentyth Pyre: Welcome, and good job

Sorry, I'm new to this- Am I even close?

--[[User:Bast ResNovae|Bast ResNovae]]

Hi there! Welcome to Ghyll and thanks for taking the time to play, etc. Your entry is a pretty good one (I'm being consistentl surprised by the outstanding quality of random players that've stumbled across Ghyll--may I ask where you found out about it from?), but of course there are quite a few little things that I'm able to nitpick at.

For a start, though the name "Izzy Eddard" is hilarious, we try to avoid earth parodies as much as possible. Though it's certainly in keeping with the feel of many of the current Ghyll names, and indeed follows a pattern similar to "Morphous Ibb" in [[Quezlarian Numerals]], it'd be nice if you could think of something equally as hilarious but without the earth parody overtones.

Secondly, since "Folktown Records edition 419 was issued on -5/12/8 EC" according to [http://inamidst.com/misc/folkrec/419 my little script], that means that FR must've commented on his disappearance ''before'' he disappeared, which is course is rather inconsistent. You might want to use the online script linked above to find an FR edition after -4/7/22 that suits your tastes. Remember that due to the dates being negative, -4 comes ''after'' -5. It is a bit confusing; sorry!

By "aurosociology" I presume you meant [[AuroAnthropology]], and though I wasn't sure, I corrected it anyway. You can check out all of the [http://gamegrene.com/wiki/?title=Bobby_Shwarmph&diff=0&oldid=698 little copyediting changes] I made (argh, actually the diff sucks so it'll be difficult for you to find them). The one thing that I wasn't able to do is pick your citations for you. According to the rules, you have to refer to one existing entry, and two new "phantom" entries. It's up to you to select which ones you want to link, so I'm leaving it down to you. Check out the bottom of all of the existing entries for the letter "b" as examples of what kind of thing we'd like. Don't forget to link to any existing entries and phantoms where you can in the main body of your entry, though the admins (including me) can do this for you once you've picked which citations you like. Also, please sign all your works using the signature button in the editing toolbar: it's the second one in from the right.

Also, who is "Glynn"? He's mentioned only once in the article and not explained. You spelled "Shwarmph" wrong a couple of times too, which is probably not a good thing as you're writing an article on him! At least you're not writing [[Supetupheraraphes]]...

It's funny that the entry I'm about to post also invented a currency system (that's intrinsic to one of the jokes of the entry), and one that's named quite similarly to yours. Since yours doesn't seem to be intrinsic to the meaning of the entry, I've renamed it [currency] for now, and will fill it in with my own when I've published it, for consistency. If you really, really want to use the original name, please let me know (or simply edit it back) so that we can discuss which one to use.

So all in all, very good effort, but needs a bit more tweaking from you. And welcome again to Ghyll!

--[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 23:31, 11 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Welcome Bast! I agree with Sean, an excellent entry on to the scene of Ghyll. Hmmm... Sean is introducing a currency system, and I just introduced a set of day and month names to work with the existing calender... this should be fun. Hope to be seeing more from you Bast. Feel free to add commentary to the end of other folk's entries if you'd like. Just remember that comments aren't "binding" upon the world, while actual entries are. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 00:41, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll talk:Bursine Calendar

2004-09-12T04:32:38Z

Qwentyth Pyre: translation mechanic

Just to make out of game "real-world" dates and in game "EC" dates reconcilabile, I've matched "tuesday" to the real world "tuesday" and "Ikk"=="September." The years will eventually drift, with the Ghyllian year being shorter than the earth one, but now we have a collogquial way to refer to specific days of the week and make reference to days and dates of researcher activity. Enjoy!
--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 00:32, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Bursine Calendar

2004-09-12T04:29:29Z

Qwentyth Pyre: names of months and days of week

The '''Bursine Calendar''' is so named for Bursine the 14th, an otherwise unremarkable [[Hive-Lord]] of the [[Nitenmangrey]]. Bursine the 14th made a gift of the calendar to his [[Paramount Queen]], Litivia, on their joining day. While any other great works he may have forged have been forgotten by time, his calendar has survived. I applaud the Encyclopedants for adopting it into their new {{EC}} notation for this project's [[Encyclopedant_Calendar]] with nothing more than a reset of the zero year. The old counting system was getting quite unweildy, so I deem this an acceptable change.

For those unfamiliar with the specific names of the days of the week and months of the year in the old Bursine Calendar (as well as the new dating system adopted by the Encyclopedants for this great work), allow me to list them for you.

Days of the week:

Tuesday, Ulfsday, Varhookan, Ween, Xarochsday, YinYin, Zalestra

Months of the Year:
<pre>
Ablinth
Baros
Conti
Darwina
E
Fusil
Gomin
Homin
Ikk
Jole
Kendrit
Lom
</pre>

Therefore, today's date in {{EC}} reckoning of 0/1/12 EC is also "YinYin, the 12th of Ikk of the year 0." I think the old date and day names have much more personality than the dry numerical notation, so I will attempt to use them both in my future entries, and I hope my fellow researchers will as well.

One additional note of interest about the Bursine Calendar is that the best minds of Ghyll still have no idea why, when rendered into Core Script as I've done above, the days of the week, and months of the year fall into alphabetic order. Core Script clearly post-dates the [[Nitenmangrey]] by at least a few centuries, so either Bursine himself could see into the future and crafted an elaborate joke for us, or more likely, the original translator of the Bursine Calendar into Core Script took some esthetic liberties.

Citations: [[Encyclopedant_Calendar]], [[Hive-Lord]], [[Paramount Queen]]
--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 00:29, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll talk:Burnflies

2004-09-12T03:33:10Z

Qwentyth Pyre:

I knew someone would get around to defining "us" implicitly at some point. Well done.

Jesse
--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 23:33, 11 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Brothers of the Lantern

2004-09-12T03:29:53Z

Qwentyth Pyre: some commentary on the blammo balance

The Brothers of the Lantern are a famous school in the Eastern Province of the Dulalian Empire. The school originated in the obscure period before -200 {{EC}}. For the past century, they have specialized in the four classical subjects of theology, [[whingelism]], archaeology, and tonsorial art. The Brothers themselves are appointed for life after a serious of rigorous physical, intellectual, moral, and gargarational tests, the nature of which is perhaps Ghyll's most profound (and coveted) secret. They are known by pseudonyms which they adopt, or perhaps are assigned, on appointment.

According to the testimony of such former students as Revelerax, students and Brothers jointly explore the relevance of such archetypal pairs as light/dark, male/female, déosil/widdershins, and honng/hongg to the theory, practice, practice of theory, and theory of practice of each subject.

The Brothers rarely publish their findings, but maintain a scholarly journal of occasional work by Brothers that has no apparent relevance to the classical subjects. A notorious example was the squib written by Brother Honuphrius in -46 {{EC}} denouncing the early and middle poems of [[Arariax]] for metrical incompetence and semantic triviality.

In popular belief, the Brothers are also responsible for maintaining a safely low (absolute) value of the [[heh-blammo balance]] throughout Ghyll. However, the organization refuses to either confirm or deny this claim, and scholarly opinion is likewise sharply divided. In the absence of material evidence, the question is likely to remain open for the foreseeable future.

'''Citations''': [[Arariax]], [[heh-blammo balance]], [[whingelism]].

--[[User:Jcowan|John Cowan]] 01:07, 11 Sep 2004 (EDT)

[[Category:People]]

----
You know what they say about theory and practice... "In theory, there is no difference between Theory and Practice. In practice, this is seldom the case." Heh. Personally though, I don't see how the Brothers could do squat to the [[heh-blammo balance]] throughout Ghyll even if they wanted to. If the balance could be shifted by a group of people, do you really think any of us would even still be here right now? Hardly! No, my opinion, the balance is safe from meddling by folks, and a darn good thing it is too. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 23:29, 11 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Aelfants

2004-09-10T01:56:28Z

Qwentyth Pyre: booze. I like booze.

Aelfants are the unfortunate outcome of a tryst betwixt [[Pyxie]] and pachyderm. It is a little know fact that [[Pyxie]]s, when intoxicated on fermented [[Fefferberry]] wine, will begin to shapeshift and become quite randy. They are responsible for most of the legends of halfbreeds and man-monsters that have come down to us from long ago. Alas, as the Aelfants' time has passed and their numbers have grown ever smaller, the few remaining Aelfants have retreated further and further west into the protective shadow of the two great [[Alezanians|Alezanian]] spires. They have fled the inhabited [[Evesque Valley]] never to be seen again.

'''Citations:''' [[Fefferberry]], [[Pyxie]].

--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 21:50, 2 Sep 2004 (EDT)

[[Category:Wildlife]]

----

Most people don't believe Aelfants truly exist, but I've seen one with my own two eyes. Just outside my garden, a few years back. I'll never forget that mighty beast's glowing, emerald hide. I know most researchers are told to leave themselves out of the story, but I'm too old for that trefk. They can shove that "passive voice" nonsense right up an Aelfant's backside. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 21:50, 2 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Are you sure you weren't as drunk as your precious Pyxie friends? --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 21:46, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Morbus, if this weren't a serious scholarly work, I'd have to call you out as the worst, misbegotten, slope-browed, slack-jawed, knuckle-dragging excuse for a "researcher" I've ever seen, for that libelous statement you just made about me. However, as this '''is''' a work of scholarly research, I shall forgoe any mention of your questionable parentage and not stoop to your level of character assassination. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 00:57, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I prefer not to exaserbate situations such as this, but I have to state the fact that [[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] has been a consumer of my [[fefferberry]] wine (made from my patented Frippen Fefferberries). --[[User:Pixel|Eric Vitiello]] 17:55, 7 Sep 2004 (EDT)

And some fine hooch it is Eric. I aint never said I don't imbibe on occaision, but Morbus there was questioning my ability as a researcher, and that I won't have. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 21:56, 9 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Alezan pantheon

2004-09-07T15:57:56Z

Qwentyth Pyre: two typo corrections

The ancient and mysterious land of [[Alezan]] has fascinated scholars and treasure-hunters for as long as civilized beings have written down their history. No part of this strange and dark land has fascinated more than the pantheon of it's extinct race.

Considering the fact that the entire civillization disappeared far beyond the memory of any current people, the fact that it's pantheon continues to live on is quite impressive, and ominous. The strange gods of the dead race refuse to simply fizzle out and die, as a normal deity or pantheon bereft of it's believers is wont to do. Somehow, they have found a way to continue existance, acting as a sort of divine parasite, becoming an instinctual object of dread for mortals, rather than the object of their worship. Almost all sentient bengs in the world have some sort of inborn concept of them, and any reminder of their existance is likely to give the willies to anyone. Any more than that is likely to drive them insane.

It is believed by the most progressive [[Occultologists]] that sometime in the distant past, the [[Alezanians]] gave our ancestors very good reason to fear them, in manners that are best left to the imagination of the cliniclly insane. This impression is strong enough that their gods can continue to exist feeding off of the collective fear of sentient beings.

Many have claimed they encountered these dark gods, but only when they've been thrown in an insane asylum for trying to claw their sensory organs out and or off. The [[Alezan Script]] and the ruins of [[Alezan]] give few clues as to the nature of these beings, but what little we know is hardly pleasent. Apparently, it involves tentacles and souls being eaten. Or so the madmen say.

'''Citations:''' [[Alezan Script]], [[Occultologists]]

--[[User:Juzh Iruk|Juzh Iruk]] 18:27, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll talk:AuroAnthropology

2004-09-07T15:53:01Z

Qwentyth Pyre: agreed. like the comments play

==Out-Of-Game Discussion==

For Fred reference: "Penelope's 'it's teddy or me' ultimatum appeared to [http://www.ursanity.com/da_lair/u-times/images/fred.gif have backfired]." --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 14:12, 3 Sep 2004

----

[http://www.culturematic.net/ghyll/ghyll-script-elements.eps An EPS (250Kb)] of the elements I used for the script - somebody please stop me if this is too pushy, overdoing it, out of turn, whatever. --[[User:Joe_Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 22:38, 4 Sep 2004

Not at all - I think this stuff is excellent. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 22:58, 4 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Agreed. I must admit that before I clicked on the link I was expecting a Bunch-of-Squiggles situation (call the mayor! we've got a bunch of squiggles situation on fifth street!), but when I loaded it I was rather pleasantly surprised to see a work of art. Ah, and I guess this explains it: "I recently went back to school to study digital media. I'm acting as technical director of a digital media design firm while pursuing my degree" - [http://www.culturematic.net/about.html About Joe Bowers]. In any case, I vehemently agree with Morbus, am delighted at your caution and politeness in soliciting advice about your actions, and very much look forward to further contributions. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 14:17, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Thanks! --[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 01:03, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)

----

Concerning "what is authoritative?", the short, out of game response is, "entries are authoritative, comments are not." It's fine for the scholars to argue points to death, and we certainly encourage that, but whereas comments are fast "shotgun" submissions, entries are "slower" and more "accurate." When you're writing your entries, you can certainly use scholarly discussion as influence, thus making something canonical ("ha, ha! told you!"), but naturally, it has to "work" - to fit in with the rest of what we know from previous encyclopedia entries, etc., etc., etc. Likewise, you can certainly allude in your entries that something you're making canon is "up for discussion" due to lack of hard evidence, translation issues, suspicion (did Windsor really murder Daniel, etc.) (in fact, a number of our existing entries seem to have hooks like that). "Entries yes, comments no" is just a way to give the poor admins a chance to breath in regards to stuff like the timeline, the progress reports, the who's who, and so forth. --[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 09:11, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Outstanding. I've been having a lot of fun with the comments, and It sounds like the system above will allow for a lot of the fun kind of anarchy and the fun kind of sanity :)
--[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 10:19, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)

== It's Times Like This When I Realize That I'll Never Be Able To Play This Game Very Well. ==

Awesome job on the comments, everyone! --[[User:D8uv|Melik Fizzou]] 10:08, 7 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Agreed. I've been having quite a bit of fun with the comments, and poor, crusty, old Qwentyth, along with the rest of us, are only on the "A" bits so far. Wait until we have a full alphabet of entries to play with. ;-) --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 11:53, 7 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:AuroAnthropology

2004-09-06T08:34:35Z

Qwentyth Pyre: backup for ginestre's ramblings

AuroAnthropology is the social-humanist study of the history of light and light sources in culture, in contrast to the long theological tradition of the [[Brothers of the Lantern]]. Modern AuroAnthropology is a fairly young science, as clear and objective study into light and related matters was until relatively recently the subject of strong taboo, if not outright persecution. Consider the obscure approach which a scribe of the Fylesgate Annals seems to think necessary in referring to the invention of [[Andelphracian Lights]]: (Please forgive the translation from ternary script)

<blockquote>
Hail Andelphracia! Hail!<br />
Seventh mayor, seven times chosen,<br />
Ripped a secret from heaven<br />
Any other would surely be smote to ash<br />
Or struck by lightning as an unrighteous thief<br />
Also, she commissioned a rather-charming clock tower<br />
Presided over festivals seven times<br />
Resolved the farm dispute fairly to either side<br />
Until you build a clock<br />
Be wary in following the example of your betters.<br />
</blockquote>

Even in our contemporary times, the pursuit of AuroAnthropology has been at best considered fairly controversial. Consider this recent clipping from our own [[Folktown Records]], edition 312:

<blockquote><p>"Why does the Sun Shine?" - Gibbous Saunders, age 11.</p>

<p>Garth Haversham (Managing Editor) replies: "Dear readers, while it is the policy and mission of this publication to provide clear answers to questions, in this case myself and my staff have had to make a tough call--Master Saunders, ask your mother."</p>
</blockquote>

In very recent years, however, thanks to the pioneering work of many scholars toiling in obscurity, a few courageous city 'docs', and the higher profile activities of the [[Unquisition]], many questions about the history of portable and celestial light have begun to be addressed.

'''Citations''': [[Brothers of the Lantern]], [[Unquisition]].

--[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 16:41, 2 Sep 2004 (EDT)

[[Category:Other]]

----

I'd just like to emphacise, having studied the Fylesgate Annals for some time, just how strained that translation of the ternary script is: in several places it could easily be interpreted as meaning the opposite with a few very straightforward arguments. Nontheless, I recognize the extreme difficulty in providing translations of ternary script in core script. Perhaps when the Encyclopaedia comes around to defining Ternary Script, we can include some examples of the original. I'd also like to thank Mr. Bowers for including an entry on the oft' neglected field of AuroAnthropology so early on in the creation of the Encyclopaedia. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 13:34, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)

My apologies again for the weak translation- for example, in the sixth (translated) line above, my reading of a 45 degree westward bend in the second-order script as 'rather-charming' could also be read "terrifying", or simply "yellow". Alternative translations by other scholars would be welcome in this space, editors permitting. --[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 13:58, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I can already hear husbands all across Ghyll saying "why, my dear, you're looking 'rather-charming' in the Bowersian sense today". --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 14:07, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Joe, that's a darn fine translation you got goin' there. But you forgot the format-dependant nature of Blivingdel's Interpretation of Ternary Script. Way I read it, it comes out more like:

<blockquote>
<p>Hail, Andelphracia!<br />
Hail, The 7 Mayors seven times!<br />
They tore a secret down from the sky.<br />
Any, who were selected, would be safe.<br />
Which other one would be smote over to ashes<br />
or struck by lightning as an unrightous thief?<br />
The <untranslatable> one rather <untranslatable> master clock.<br />
Andelphracia presided over Festivals seven times during the farm debate.<br />
Each side then repaired, until Andelphracia carefully improved the master clock.</p>
</blockquote>

That 3rd line from the last didn't make no sense, but I see how you could get "yellow" or "rather-charming" or "terrifying" for that glyph. You can clearly see the ascending length structure of the lines in my translation. Afraid my Ternary Script is a bit rusty, but I think this reading captures the style of a scribe of the Fylesgate Annals just a bit better.
--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 15:36, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Given that it was her seventh year of mayoresshood (cf. "the creation in the seventh year of the mayoresshood of Andelphracia of her namesakeful lights" in [[Andelphracian Lights]]), that reading is even more unlikely. Current Fylesgate Annals research suggests no verifiable references to non-Andelphracia mayors of Fylesgate--we can be fairly sure that the Annals are almost all only about her activities as Fylesgate mayoress--but as with any investigation into Ternary Script literature, I don't think your reading can be completely discounted. In any case, I here provide my own translation:

Feeling the ascending length structure to be merely an oddly popular myth of Ternary Script style, I've composed this in the rhyming iambic pentameter couplets I feel more befitting for such a magnificent piece of Ghyll heritage:

<blockquote class="ternary">
<div>[...]</div>
<div> Cheer now good charm to Andelphracia: </div>

<div>Her seventh year, and pray we seven more! </div>
<div> The firmament to her bequeathed its lore, </div>

<div>Although to else it would have causèd grief</div>
<div> Or struck by lightning as unrighteous thief.</div>

<div>She the clock tower moved great men to build,</div>
<div> Presided over sevèral a guild,</div>

<div>Led us to reclaim land a Fool derides:</div>
<div> Resolved the Farm Dispute fair on both sides.</div>

<div>Caution then to whom fall short of her grace:</div>
<div> Know well thy lowly station and thy place.</div>
</blockquote>

Though there is quite some diversity in the syntax and semantics of our collective translations, I think that the underlying feel and direction has been now adequately captured by us three. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 17:26, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Thanks to you both for your help! For those of you who may not have access to your own copy of the Annals, I attach the untranslated document (some primary and secondary structure has been omitted for clarity, except when chording with the lower-order structures was necessary). Note the three separate compass strokes (!), that caused me and Mr. Pyre such confusion over the chord "The Mighty/Time/Mechanism". (That, to Mr. Palmer's delight, I read initially as "Time/Charming"). See [http://www.culturematic.net/ghyll/hail-andalphracia.gif Fylesgate Annals Folio 82 (Andelphracia)]. --[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 19:58, 4 Sep 2004

I know that my position on Phracia and the Phracians is generally considered risible, paranoid or sometimes even offensive- but sooner or later even the most obtuse will surely be constrained to face facts. We're supposed to be scholars, damn it all. Now- when the gloves finally come off, there's one question I'd dearly love to see settled: just WHY are there no records of mayors other than (''sic'') Andel-Phracia? Now that's a question worth its obith in fefferberry seeds.... --[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]] 16:43, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Paranoid especially since even the existence of the "Phracians" is based on a highly tenuous etymological reading of Andelphracia's name in Ternary Script. Current studies indicate it more likely that her name is derived from a compound of several chordic elements for simple qualities (specifically, possibily qualities related to her birth: the elements for "lakeside", "rain", and "dawn-chorus" can be discerned), which have over time coalesced and mutated into a fixed form. The time phase for this having taken place is unknown since the Duadic Scripts that would be most likely to lead to further insight on the matter are still largely undeciphered, but we do have some passing references in other sundry records that were recently discovered in the [[Odlucian Library]]. (Please excuse me if by "Phracians" you mean those of us that study Andelphracia; a term that has been used occasionally. It's just that your hyphenation of her name suggests otherwise).

We are led to believe from the Fylesgate Annals that Fylesgate was a small town with a very prestigious and famous mayoress, but your question is a good one and I'm unable to shed any further light on it: why should a town kept by one of the most famous of Ghyll's historical figures have barely a mention in other documents before or after her, and why are we unable to place it with any much more accuracy than to the [[Evesque Valley]]? Perhaps as our skills at interpreting Ternary and Duadic Script evolves, we'll learn some answers, but given the amount of time that's passed since those grand days, it's likely that there'll be a few mysteries that'll continue to tantalise us for a long time to come. Archaeological excavations in the [[Evesque Valley]] by the Cranee lot et al. may also help us to understand--you never know, there might even be more records turned up in the process. --[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 17:05, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)

If by "tenuous etymological reading" you intend (as if I didn't know) to cast aspersions on my extensive studies of variant q in Ternary, so be it. My shoulders are broad, and the fear of being a lone voice in the wilderness has never held me back from asking awkward questions; what is more -and you must grant me that this is some small measure of comfort - time told in my favour over the Loolier poem. So, my question stands: IF (my capitalisation) the name Andelphracia refers to only one person, and female, why are there no records of others? You yourself accept the rather vague nature references implicit in "her" name, and posit coalescence over time, and solidification. Don't be offended now, but these are not qualities generally associated with stories, legends or myths about one single historical person. Accretion, yes- but not coalescence and solidification.

On the other hand, if we - just for one brave moment - dared to question received wisdom, and posited that Andelphracia should be read Andel-Phracia, not one but many.... how many other oddities would suddenly seem no longer quite so strange....
--[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]] 18:10, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ginestre might have a point there. It sure would shed some light (heh) on my Blivingdel's Interpretation-style ascending length structure translation. Why, "The 7 Mayors seven times" might even refer to up to 49 '''different''' "Phracian" Mayors, of whom this "Andel" may be the most famous. Yes, indeed. Ginestre, if you could ever prove this line of mayors leading either from or to a single individual named "Andel," why, your reputation as a first rate researcher would be made. Alas, all you have right now is an absence of proof, which is hardly a proof of absence, if you get my meaning. However, since I'm sure my translation is closer to the original Fylesgate Annals style, I think you may be on to something. Good luck searching for substantiation. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 23:33, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Just a note on process- while this is a particularly sticky passage, admittedly translated by an old Folktowner more at home with good old fashioned "Steam-Engineer's" script than Third-Formal orientation, likely some of us will be introducing ancient or foreign texts for which our translations will be authoritative. Perhaps we should agree on one of the following:

1) Surely all of us are intimately familiar with core script, regardless of time or place of origin. Perhaps we should agree that translations from core scripts are authoritative, while Duadic/Ternary/Quartic/Nth-order texts are subject to multiple varying interpretations (always allowing that no scribe or caligrapher would ever inscribe meaning into a higher order that contradicts a lower order of the same document.)

2) On the other hand, perhaps it will be enough for scholars simply to note "My translation could be in error" or some such (as I did above), to indicate that their interpretations are open to debate, and all other translations should be assumed to be authoritative.

If it's of interest, perhaps the Encyclopedants would like to weigh in on this issue?
--[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]] 00:30, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Qwentyth, you have long been known as one unafraid to speak your mind, openly, fearless and regardless; thank you for your support. I know that others would speak too, if they but dared. But let me leave the present aside, before I waytrack myself beyond measure...

May I ask a direct opinion on a small matter of translation? Your independent opinion would help me clarify certain aspects of my own thought. I have not as you know now spent time on the Annals for many years since, preferring more active service in the pursuit of knowledge, but I couldn't help but notice line 7 in a new light this morning as it seems to confer support to investigations I am currently undertaking. The key question is how to interpret the second trestach - "farm dispute" in your rendering, together with the prepositional desinence you follow tradition in rendering as "during".
Let me quote your own translation of the line in question:
<blockquote>
Andelphracia presided over Festivals seven times during the farm debate.
</blockquote>
The basic semantic points are not at issue: the trestach deliberately places (farm, homestead, place of cultivation) in relation to the gerund (come against), which is usually used to denote the resolution of some degree of lack of agreement and to the authority suffix applied to Anfelphracia. You have combined the gerund and the authority suffix, and so rendered "presided over". By the bye, this lack of agreement is often, but by no means always, oral. But -and here is my point - would you see any difficulty in rendering "farm dispute" as "dispute at the physical farm" rather than "dispute about the farm question"? If we accept that we are talking about a real place, rather than an abstract concept, then the prepositional desinence can be taken as merely following an older usage as pure embellishment. The line could then be rendered literally as

Andelphracia in authority - was in opposition to - both sides - during the homesteader's fight
<br />
or, more colloquially <br />
Andel-Phracia lorded it over the fight at the homestead<br />

Or -as the Loolier adage has it, when two are quarreling, sneak in and pinch the pigs. Ha!

Is this stretching things too far, in your opinion?

--[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]] 03:49, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Nope. Sounds fine by me. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 04:34, 6 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:AuroAnthropology

2004-09-06T03:33:38Z

Qwentyth Pyre: fixed ginestre typo, and added support for his theory

Ghyll:Altoxian Bulb

2004-09-05T05:18:17Z

Qwentyth Pyre: vaguely linking some of the "light-emitting" entries

As the first Encyclopedants' Progress Report [[Encyclopedants Progress Report 1|states]], "in the hopes of canvasing as much of our beloved Ghyll as possible, we sent missives far and wide, requesting entries from scholars of all walks of life, society, and culture." In doing so, however, we have had to accept entries for the Encyclopaedia that have become corrupted in their journeys. One entry in particular, on the Altoxian Bulb, came to us in a very patchy state due to it having been—as far as we can tell—sent via word of mouth in many parts of its journey. Indeed, we received several conflicting versions, none of which made sense in and of themselves, let alone when taken as a whole.

To that end, instead of using the best quality message that we received as we had previously done, we have taken it upon ourselves to draft the most likely possible original of the message. It should thus be noted that this entry may not have the same academic integrity as the main corpora, and should not be taken to be absolute fact.

==Original Messages==

For historical purposes, we have preserved two of the original messages that we received:

* [http://gamegrene.com/wiki/?title=Altox_bulb&oldid=419 First Altox Bulb message].
* [http://gamegrene.com/wiki/?title=Altox_bulb&oldid=463 Second Altox Bulb message].

Now follows the Encyclopedants' reconstructed original:

==Altoxian Bulb==

The Altoxian Bulb was invented by [[Professor Altoxian]], a native of the settlements of the city of [[Iganefta]]. The bulbs, perhaps more commonly known as "Altox Bulbs" or "Altoxian's Bulbs", serve as a primary source of light for the lower classes of the city. The upper classes, or Adrizians, possess higher quality forms of illumination.

Known colloquially as "doc", [[Professor Altoxian|Altoxian]] created the lights from a gelatinous substance for which there are many reserves deep underneath [[Iganefta]], though the substance is also known to occur in other parts of Ghyll. Altoxian Bulbs are comprised of a plastic sheath or sack which is then braided together, or held into place by a network of strands.

The lower classes had been in dire need of an inexpensive form of lighting, and [[Professor Altoxian|Altoxian]]'s breakthrough was hailed as outstanding and revolutionary. Though the process by which the gelatinous substance is garnered is kept a secret, there are rumours of a secret trail leading through the nearby Azura Mines which leads to an easily accessible underground river of the gel. Most of the Adrizian sections of the city also have access to the network of mines, but the access points are rarely used on account of the Adrizians having no purpose for the gel. Adrizians have been known to sell quantities of the gel to the lower classes in pity, but this is very rarely heard of.

'''Citations''': [[Iganefta]], [[Professor Altoxian]].

Original author: [[User:Robbi|Makarii Spitignev]] 02:44, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)<br />
Edited by '''The Encyclopedants''' due to message integrity problems.

[[Category:Invention]]

----
Hemoss The Heretic is said to have issued his two Great Heresies after the discovery of the Altoxian Bulb. The first was that the gel never really existed at all, and old Altoxian had just found a cheaper way to make disguised [[Andelphracian Lights]]. The second was that these bulbs were the first practical application of [[Awal shrinkage]] harnessed for light production. Of course, most of you never heard any of this, because it was all termed "heresy" for so long. Bah. We are adults and scholars and if future generations are to learn, they need all of the facts. --[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 01:18, 5 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Aelfants

2004-09-05T04:57:15Z

Qwentyth Pyre: snarky scholar name calling

Ghyll:AuroAnthropology

2004-09-03T19:36:04Z

Qwentyth Pyre:

Ghyll:Encyclopedants Progress Report 1

2004-09-03T05:38:07Z

Qwentyth Pyre: fixed write-up. Tim was high up in Council for Quezlarian Research, not Folktown Records

''This entry is in progress.''

__TOC__

'''The Encyclopedants''' is a term applied to the small group of individuals who decided a collection of Ghyll intellect, in written and distributed form, was necessary for the bettering of society, as well as the benefit of future historians. The group now presides over the encyclopedia's integrity and "cohesion of vision". To remain an objective judge, the Encyclopedants attempt to focus only on "the facts as we're told them", asking questions, poking holes, and suggesting "standards" to further quality assurance. These Progress Reports are considered official communication between the Encyclopedants and their Scholars, and they encourage others to write their own thoughts and comments into the margins.

==And Thus It Begins!==
First, we would like to thank those who have started adding terms... already we've seen some strong entries but, as feared, a definitive lack of "group think". This is our own fault: in the hopes of canvasing as much of our beloved Ghyll as possible, we sent missives far and wide, requesting entries from scholars of all walks of life, society, and culture. Naturally, the world looks remarkably different through multicolored glasses, and cohesion (what we have sworn to uphold) has yet to develop. Although the blame is ours, we'll address steps to bring things back into focus.

==The State of the Art of Ghyll==
The entries as they stand are highly disparate, chiefly caused by a "culture-centric" approach to scholarly writing. It is important to recognize the world, and other encyclopedic entries, around you, otherwise you stand to make an embarrassingly "everything revolves around me" mistake in your work. We have gone through the core aspects of the existing entries in hopes of solidifying what we know.

===Geography===
We discern from [[Alezan]] and [[Andelphracian Lights]] that part of Ghyll is forested; from [[Alezan]] and [[Avazian Box]] there are wastelands, but apart from the city in [[Altox bulb]], the gardens of [[Agony uncle]], and the mires and quayres of [[Andelphracian Lights]], landscape is not yet a chief factor in your entries. It probably should not be. With the Encyclopedia a massive undertaking already, there's plenty of time for mapmaking later. Your focus as scholars should be much smaller: life, culture, and inspiration not location, distance and direction.

===History and Dates===
Due to our lack of guidance, entries have been dreadful when it comes to history, date, times, and respect for other cultural histories. There is no time like the present to realize time does not revolve around you. We appreciate that your location has developed its own unique way to measure time and tell its history - we don't dare suggest you or your elders change it! We do require, however, that your encyclopedia entries "standardize" any timeframes to what we have dubbed the "Encyclopedant Calendar", or EC. This standardized time will be measured in centuries, decades, years, months, weeks, and days. Events that occurred previous to EC time will follow the same measurements, such that 50 years before EC is written as "-50 EC." '''The current time is 0 EC'''; we estimate a complete Round of encyclopedia entries (A through Z) will be completed every six months (half a year). ''Example: the seventh day of the fifth month of -20 EC would be written as -20/5/7.''

As such, the following changes will be retroactively applied to your entries:

* [[Alarius]] has had "Fifteenth century" removed. No possible conversion to EC dates is known.
* Removed mention of "epochs" from [[Avazian Box]]. Lack of civilization means lack of conversion to EC.
* The "epochs" of [[Aquentravalkeration]] have been revised to EC time.

Scholars should consider writing entries more recent than -100 EC. Due to inaccurate record keeping (which the Ghyll Encyclopedia hopes to correct for future generations), solid information from before -200 EC is very hard to come by and rarely complete. In fact, much of known "history" prior to -100 EC is passed down through fairy tales, myths, legends, and inconsistent reinvention. We recommend focusing on -150 EC and later.

For more information, including a timeline, see [[Encyclopedant Calendar]].

===People and Politics===
We have some interesting people being recorded permanently for posterity. Windsor and Bavarian Creame, Daniel Mboya, Madam Calvian, Alarius, Phennella, Professor Altoxian, Bunny Hutch, Siam Sinch, Andelphracia, Margaret Widderson, Quezlar 6, Bysted Timperton, Supetupheraraphes, Rancticirchiretic, Oblibestircus, Morphous Ibb, Tim Timperton, Violetta, and a handful of other supporting characters have been mentioned just in these very early entries. We anticipate seeing them explored further as more encyclopedia entries are received.

Politics have been sparsely mentioned, but some inferences are possible. In [[Agony uncle]], the arrest of Windsor Creame suggests a police force in the region of the [[Folktown Records]]' office. [[Andelphracian Lights|Andelphracia]] was a mayoress, so towns have people running them. There is a general order to Ghyll, and one which will grow more apparent with further entries. There appears to be no overarching control: the rural areas tend to be cooperative within themselves, and museums and organized cities with councils indicate order; the fact that quite a few of the entries are historical and that the Ghyll Encyclopedia itself is being written by a team of scholars (you) indicates the same kind of locally-regularised control (us).

===Technology and Education===
Technology, or lack there of, has been inconsistent and is again attributible to our exhuberance in selecting a variety of scholars from locations all around Ghyll. Certainly, different areas have developed in their own special way... some for the better, some for the worst. The rural technologies of the lights ([[Andelphracian Lights]] and [[Altox bulb]]) contrast with huge past towers ([[Alezan]]) and magnetic propulsion technologies ([[Avazian Box]]) contrast with frescos ([[Alarius]]) and newspaper offices ([[Agony uncle]]). It seems telling that the most amazing technologies (of magnetism and architectural immensity) are from ages long past or civilizations long dead. Suffice it to say, further cohesion and extensive historical research will need to be addressed in your upcoming submissions.

Naturally, the people of Ghyll are quite well educated: we invent, we write, and we produce publications. It's been a surprise, but we have already created a staggering amount of written documentation: the [[Folktown Records]], the Encyclopaedia of Lost Lore, [[Cranee Historical Society]] records (inferred), [[Quester and Phorrus]], The Fylesgate Annals, the ancient documents of the Nitenmangrey, and of course the Ghyll Encyclopedia itself! We have more than one research council, and even a historical society and museum. If this trend continues, Ghyll is going to have to have its educational system explained rather well. It may just be that, since we're scholars, we tend to have a scholarly bias--of course--and that most inhabitants are of a more mundane nature. We have even seen a trickling of the arts, with [[Amphitheatre aristocracy|allusions to past theatre productions]].

==The Facts As We're Told Them==

The first batch of entries consists of the following twelve entries: [[Agony uncle]] (Language), [[Alarius]] (Person), [[Alezan]] (Land), [[Alezanians]] (People), [[Altox bulb]] (Invention), [[Aminfarances Institute of Science and Technomancy]] (Organization), [[Amphitheatre aristocracy]] (Organization), [[Andelphracian Lights]] (Invention), [[Aquentravalkeration]] (Other), [[Arariax]] (Person), [[Avazian Box]] (Invention), and [[Quezlarian numerals]] (Other).

===[[Agony uncle]] (Language)===

* The Folktown Records is weekly newspaper.
* There are over 600 editions of the Folktown Records (-13 [[Encyclopedant Calendar|EC]]).
* Windsor Creame has worked at the Folktown Records for 12 years (-13 [[Encyclopedant Calendar|EC]]).
* Windsor Creame is 57 years old (birth: -58 [[Encyclopedant Calendar|EC]]).
* Windsor Creame's wife of seven years (-8 [[Encyclopedant Calendar|EC]]) is Bavarian Creame.
* Windsor Creame has a (young) nephew called Daniel Mboya; hence he must have a brother or sister.
* The Folktown Records offices are surrounded by gardens and, presumably, employ a gardener.
* Madam Calvian is a neighbour to a Folktown Records employee (who happens to be the transcriber).
* Daniel Mboya was severely beaten, and eventually died due to blood collecting in his lungs.
* Windsor Creame was "detained and brought in for questioning"; hence there must be a police force.

There are a series of nuances not yet dependable as facts: why did the transcriber take down the conversation? How, if any, does it relate to Mboya turning up at Madam Calvian's (the transcriber's next door neighbor)? And, assuming Windsor's murder charge is true, why would a man who has answered children's questions for so many years suddenly turn violent?

===[[Alarius]] (Person)===

* Alarius was a renaissance thinker.
* Alarius held a conspirational view of history.
* The [[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]] published the Encyclopaedia of Lost Lore.
* Alarius painted a fresco at the [[Palace of Lost Souls]].
* The fresco was altered by Alarius shortly after its completion.

Did Alarius fancy himself a god, as depicted by his fresco and the perspective of looking down upon all of existence? Or did he feel everyone creates and visualizes their own reality? And just who was the woman in his fresco, and why did Alarius feel the need to modify her appearance?

===[[Alezan]] (Land)===

* Alezan is a forested land to the west of the [[Evesque Valley]].
* Alezan was inhabited by an old race who built a large twin tower structure.
* Alezan is either sparsely or non-populated, and visited only rarely (mainly by children).
* The [[Cranee Historical Society]] have investigated Alezan's past.
* Phennella is a member of the [[Cranee Historical Society]].
* A [[vorpcara]] is a relic which may be embedded in the ground.
* Alezan (possibly Cranee?) has a nearby museum which houses a vorpcara.

===[[Alezanians]] (People)===

* [[Bobby Shwarmph]] lives close to the land of [[Alezan]].
* The Alezanians are a conspiracy-theory style putatively extant group.
* [[Bobby Shwarmph]] runs the [[Aliens Everywhere]] magazine.

===[[Altox bulb]] (Invention)===

* The Altox, or Altoxian, bulb was invented by [[Professor Altoxian]].
* [[Professor Altoxian]] is a resident of the city of [[Iganefta]].
* [[Professor Altoxian]] is well acquainted with the lower class.
* [[Altox bulbs]] are created from a jelly mined from deep under [[Iganefta]].
* The Azura Mines have a stream of the jelly, it is rumoured.
* The Adrizian are another name for the upper class of [[Iganefta]].

This entry seems to have similarities with Andelphracian Lights, but the last sentence has confounded Encyclopedants, sending some to blows. Are the entrances in the Adrizian sections to mines of jelly reserves underneath the city? If not, what are the entrances to, and what does it mean that the entrances are 'rarely used on account of not needing the jelly'?

===[[Aminfarances Institute of Science and Technomancy]] (Organization)===

* The Aminfarances Institute of Science and Technomancy is a loose collective.
* The Institute is possibly ancient, and recruits bright young individuals.
* The organizational structure is arranged in a series of nested circles.
* The Institute engages in projects of scientific and technomantic research.
* [[Aminfarances]], of unknown gender, founded the Institute.

===[[Amphitheatre aristocracy]] (Organization)===

* The Amphitheatre aristocracy are a group based in Folktown.
* The Houvers are a lower-class dissident group opposed to decadence.
* The Amphitheatre aristocracy meet weekly at the Folktown Amphitheatre.
* Theatre used to be popular in Ghyll, but is much less so now.
* Trained [[Burnflies|burnfly swarms]] can be sculpted.
* Bunny Hutch is a famed performance artist, skilled in sculpting Burnfly swarms.
* Siam Sinch, daughter of [[Bavarian Creame]] from a previous marriage, does glitterthought.
* Statues were made recently of the, possibly mythical, [[Alezan pantheon]].
* The Amphitheatre Aristocracy provides scholarships.
* Folktown has its own city council.

===[[Andelphracian Lights]] (Invention)===

* Andelphracian Lights, or Andelights, were invented by Andelphracia.
* Andelphracian Lights are used to set a return path across difficult terrain at night.
* Margaret Widderson is an Andelight craftswoman.
* The [[Evesque Valley]] has quayres which contain materials used to make Andelights.
* Andelphracia was the mayoress of the now lost Fylesgate.
* Fylesgate was likely in the [[Evesque Valley]].
* The Fefferberry is used as an ingredient in making Andelphracian Lights.
* Quezlar 6 may have used the lights in crossing the Elminster Mire.
* [[Bysted Timperton]] may write about the lights in [[Quester and Phorrus]].
* The Fylesgate Annals allude to the invention of Andelphracian Lights.
* The term "Andelphracian Lights" can't be antedated back more than a hundred and fifty years.

===[[Aquentravalkeration]] (Other)===

* Aquentravalkeration was practiced by the now extinct [[Nitenmangrey]] culture.
* The [[Nitenmangrey]] culture flourished prior to -900 [[Encyclopedant Calendar|EC]].
* Documents from that time are currently undeciphered, and comprised of hieroglyphs.
* The term "Aquentravalkeration" was coined by [[Supetupheraraphes]].
* The [[Nitenmangrey]] had shamans and Paramount Queens.
* Rancticirchiretic is another scholar documenting the [[Nitenmangrey]].
* Oblibestircus is another, less creditable, scholar investigating the [[Nitenmangrey]].

===[[Arariax]] (Person)===

* Arariax was one of Ghyll's most influential poets.
* Arariax the poet was born in -280 [[Encyclopedant Calendar|EC]] in the [[Evesque Valley]].
* Arariax had a peculiar habit of releasing 64 poems at a time.
* Arariax wrote "The [[Deathbug]]" (poem) and "Why the Free Bird loves Tallow" (book/pamphlet).
* Arariax was in exile for an unknown reason.

===[[Avazian Box]] (Invention)===

* The Avazians were metalworkers.
* The Avazians engineered many magnetic propulsion weapons.
* There were at least three Avazian (presumably civil) Wars.
* There were many protests against the [[Third Avazian War]], to little effect.
* Avazians have very few males in the population, possibly due to the wars.
* The Blackguard Avazians are a team of primarily female Avazian scientists.
* A [[nanit]] appears to be a unit of measurement, but may be of magnetic flux.
* Avazian Boxes are also known as Avazian War Boxes or simply Their Boxes.
* Avazian Boxes dissipate magnetic devices (including weapons) over a large radius.
* Avazian Boxes and their effects completely stopped the [[Third Avazian War]].
* They also caused the reversal of technological development due to their effectiveness.
* An Avazian Box, discovered in the Avazian ruins, has been accidentally activated.

===[[Quezlarian numerals]] (Other)===

* Morphous Ibb wrote to the [[Folktown Records]], and was published in #578.
* Tim Timperton is on staff at the [[Folktown Records]].
* Ghyll's core script has aesthetic problems.
* Quezlar 6 invented Quezlarian Numerals; it is popularly believed he didn't.
* Quezlar 6 was married to Violetta, and her nickname was VI.
* Tim Timperton used to be a high ranking member of the [[Council for Quezlarian Research]].
* The [[Council for Quezlarian Research]] deny this encyclopedia entry.

Is Tim Temperton related to Bysted Templeton, currently a member of the [[Council for Quezlarian Research]]? Also note that, for historical reasons, this entry was written nearly nine months before the Ghyll Encyclopedia officially got under way (it served well as an adequate measure for our fact checking, quality assurance, and publication methods.)

<br /><div align="right"><big><strong>--The Encyclopedants</strong></big></div>

Ghyll:Quezlarian Numerals

2004-09-03T05:34:32Z

Qwentyth Pyre: snarky researcher commentary on slander of Tim Timperton

Excerpted from the [[Folktown Records]], edition 578.

<blockquote><p>"When, and how, did Ghyll develop Quezlar numerals?" - Morphous Ibb, age 7.</p>

<p>Tim Timperton replies: "Like many things in Ghyll, they were designed to cover up the aesthetic problems of core script. Quezlarian (or Quezlar) numerals, contrary to popular belief, were invented by Quezlar 6. According to recent research by the [[Council for Quezlarian Research]], Quezlar 6 was so upset with the shape of the core script number in his name that he invented a whole new optional numbering system: Quezlar numerals. Delightfully, VI was the nickname of his wife, Violetta, which explains why 6 is spelled VI in Quezlarian numerals."</p></blockquote>

Intriguingly enough, the secretive [[Council for Quezlarian Research]] emphatically deny the above claim! But we need not doubt it; Tim Timperton was a high ranking member of the council before taking up post as an [[agony uncle]] in the [[Folktown Records]]. Why he would change career from a Quezlarian researcher to an [[agony uncle]], one can only guess...

'''Citations''': [[Agony uncle]], [[Council for Quezlarian Research]].

--[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]] 11:44, 20 Aug 2004 (EDT)

----
I really must protest the use of the term [[Agony uncle]] to describe a fine upstanding lad like Tim Timperton. As my ''esteemed'' fellow researcher is obviously aware, an "[[Agony uncle]]" is a '''derogatory''' term applied to employees of the [[Folktown Records]] weekly newspaper. While I admit that Tim works at that fine establishment, he is a fine, upstanding lad. Not at all like that pile of [[splak]] father of his, [[Bysted Timperton]]. I should know, I play cards with the old dog every Tuesday and he cheats.
--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 01:34, 3 Sep 2004 (EDT)

User:Qwentyth Pyre

2004-09-03T04:31:39Z

Qwentyth Pyre: bold the title

'''Qwentyth Pyre, Ghyll Scholar'''
----

Hmmmm... well then. You say you want to know about old Qwentyth hmm? Not much to tell really. I was born in -58 {{EC}}, a contempoary of Windsor Creame, though I never met the man myself. I've lived alone just outside [[Evesque Valley]] for most of my life, and the near-by children think I may be one of the last remaining [[Alezanians]]. Stupid kids. The idea keeps them out of my garden though, so I don't try to tell them otherwise. Heh.

When I heard the Great Council of Ghyll wanted to put together an encyclopedia, I knew they'd need old Qwentyth's help. So here I am, with all the knowledge I've collected over my long life to help correct you young'uns when you get it wrong.

--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 21:13, 2 Sep 2004 (EDT)

User:Qwentyth Pyre

2004-09-03T04:27:58Z

Qwentyth Pyre: added title

Qwentyth Pyre, Ghyll Scholar
----

Hmmmm... well then. You say you want to know about old Qwentyth hmm? Not much to tell really. I was born in -58 {{EC}}, a contempoary of Windsor Creame, though I never met the man myself. I've lived alone just outside [[Evesque Valley]] for most of my life, and the near-by children think I may be one of the last remaining [[Alezanians]]. Stupid kids. The idea keeps them out of my garden though, so I don't try to tell them otherwise. Heh.

When I heard the Great Council of Ghyll wanted to put together an encyclopedia, I knew they'd need old Qwentyth's help. So here I am, with all the knowledge I've collected over my long life to help correct you young'uns when you get it wrong.

--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 21:13, 2 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Agony uncle

2004-09-03T04:19:19Z

Qwentyth Pyre: "to seemed" swapped for "seemed to"

An "agony uncle" is a derogatory term applied to employees of the [[Folktown Records]] weekly newspaper, a long running and esteemed publication with over six hundred issues released. Since the core focus of the [[Folktown Records]] is to be a conduit between answers and the innocent questions children ask, a large number of employees are patient and wise men and women, trained to answer tough questions simply, but correctly.

Unfortunately, the trials and tribulations of insatiable and unyielding children can wear anyone down, and such was the case of Windsor Creame, a 57-year old man in his twelfth year of service at the paper. One cool and calm day, the polar opposite of the heated fury to follow, Windsor was touring his nephew, Daniel Mboya, around the [[Folktown Records]] office. What follows next was hastily transcribed by a fellow employee:

<blockquote>
'''Windsor''': And this is where our answers are edited.
<br />'''Daniel''': What's editing?
<br />'''Windsor''': Well, it's when someone improves your writing.
<br />'''Daniel''': Because it was bad?
<br />'''Windsor''': No, no. They give it a polish that makes it better.
<br />'''Daniel''': If it wasn't bad, why does it need to get better?
<br />'''Windsor''': It could need tightening or clarification, or...
<br />'''Daniel''': What's clarfication [sic]?
<br />'''Windsor''': It's when something is made clearer and more understandable.
<br />'''Daniel''': So, your answer was bad because it wasn't clear?
<br />'''Windsor (laughing)''': No, no. It may have just been confusing to read.
<br />'''Daniel''': If the answer was right, how could it be confusing?
<br />'''Windsor''': Oh look, this is the break room. We've got brownies!
<br />'''Daniel''': If your answer isn't wrong or bad, why does it need improving?
<br />'''Daniel''': Improving my reading makes me better at it, right?
<br />'''Daniel''': And clarfication [sic] makes something not confusing.
<br />'''Daniel''': So your answer must have been confusing and not good!
<br />'''Windsor''': No, Daniel, it just means two heads are better than one.
<br />'''Daniel''': I think I need more clarfication [sic]. Is the editing man here?
</blockquote>

It was at this point that the transcriber reported Windsor becoming more shifty, nervous, and red-in-the-face, "unbecoming of a job where understanding and civility were crucial." Sadly for poor Daniel, the unfolding events change based on who you question. The transcriber recalls Windsor pushing Daniel roughly into the break room, and slamming him into one of the empty wooden chairs.

On the other hand, the gardener, outside in the bright sun, reports Windsor waving cordially, and "enjoying a brownie with his favorite nephew." The transcriber disagrees, saying that Windsor "forcefully [shoved] food into the boy's mouth." The editor, returning from a meeting down the hall, saw only Windsor, with his hand cupped over Daniel's mouth, leaving "in a huff."

Regardless of what really happened at the [[Folktown Records]] that day, the next time Daniel was seen, he was badly bruised and bleeding profusely. When prompted for an explanation, the boy's scratchy and barely discernible voice proved unintelligible. Further medical investigation showed internal bleeding in the throat area, indicative that the boy had literally screamed, presumably in agony, until even that caused further pain.

When Windsor returned home that night, hours after Daniel was discovered leaving bloody footprints on Madam Calvian's marble walkway (herself a neighbor to the transcriber), he was detained and brought in for questioning. After proving "uncooperative" by not stating the "truth" as the authorities figured it, he was locked away in a cell without further due process.

[[Bavarian Creame]], Windsor's wife of seven years, categorically denies that Windsor could do such a thing, stating that "he and poor Daniel had just gone spelunking last week and had a great time!" After being brought in as an accomplice, [[Bavarian Creame|Bavarian]] was released due to lack of evidence.

Daniel died the following day due to blood collecting in his lungs, and his death was officially pronounced a murder. As the news swept the community, so did the macabre reason for Daniel's inability to name his abuser: his ragged and raw throat, ripped apart by the screams no one seemed to hear. Even without irrefutable proof, Windsor Creame, newly dubbed the "agony uncle" and pushed "over the edge by the ceaseless accusations of answer ineptitude", was the obvious choice. However, several friends and family of Windsor believe him to be innocent, and at the wrong place at the wrong time.

'''Citations''': [[Bavarian Creame]], [[Folktown Records]].

--[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]] 18:42, 27 Aug 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Ghyll Index

2004-09-03T04:06:09Z

Qwentyth Pyre: /* Phantom Entries */ -added Qwentyth's entry to list

The following is a list of all encyclopedia entries, who originally phantomed them, and the entry author.
<br />As a player, don't worry about maintaining this list - the admins can take care of it if you forget.

==Phantom Entries==

These are entries yet to be defined. You can also see phantoms [[Special:Wantedpages|sorted by number of citations]].

<table class="ghyllidx" style="float:left; padding-left: 1em; width:48%;">
<tr><th>Entry Name</th><th>Phantomed by</th></tr>
<tr><td>[[Alezan pantheon]]</td><td>[[User:Arnia|Fingest Arnia]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Aliens Everywhere]]</td><td>[[User:tehwalrus|Edward Shwarmph]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Aminfarances]]</td><td>[[User:Deusx|Tamlin Moon]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Bavarian Creame]]</td><td>[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Bobby Shwarmph]]</td><td>[[User:tehwalrus|Edward Shwarmph]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Brothers of the Lantern]]</td><td>[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]]</td><td>[[User:Bartmoss|Bartmoss]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Burnflies]]</td><td>[[User:Arnia|Fingest Arnia]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Bysted Timperton]]</td><td>[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Council for Quezlarian Research]]</td><td>[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Cranee Historical Society]]</td><td>[[User:Crschmidt|Christopher Schmidt]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Deathbug]]</td><td>[[User:D8uv|Melik Fizzou]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Evesque Valley]]</td><td>[[User:D8uv|Melik Fizzou]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Fefferberry]]</td><td>[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Folktown Records]]</td><td>[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]]</td></tr>
</table>

<table class="ghyllidx" style="float:right; padding-right: 1em; width:48%;">
<tr><th>Entry Name</th><th>Phantomed by</th></tr>
<tr><td>[[Iganefta]]</td><td>[[User:Robbi|Makarii Spitignev]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Jesper's Constant]]</td><td>[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Nanit]]</td><td>[[User:Pixel|Eric Vitiello]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Nitanmangrey]]</td><td>[[User:Jcowan|John Cowan]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Palace of Lost Souls]]</td><td>[[User:Bartmoss|Bartmoss]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Professor Altoxian]]</td><td>[[User:Robbi|Makarii Spitignev]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Pyxie]]</td><td>[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Quester and Phorrus]]</td><td>[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Spelgof]]</td><td>[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Splak]]</td><td>[[User:Deusx|Tamlin Moon]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Supetupheraraphes]]</td><td>[[User:Jcowan|John Cowan]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Third Avazian War]]</td><td>[[User:Pixel|Eric Vitiello]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Unquisition]]</td><td>[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Vorpcara]]</td><td>[[User:Crschmidt|Christopher Schmidt]]</td></tr>
</table>

<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==Encyclopedia Entries==

These entries have been defined.

<table class="ghyllidx" style="padding-left: 1em;">
<tr><th>Entry Name</th><th>Phantomed by</th><th>Defined by</th></tr>
<tr><td>[[Aelfants]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Agony uncle]]</td><td>[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]]</td><td>[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Alarius]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Bartmoss|Bartmoss]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Alezan]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Crschmidt|Christopher Schmidt]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Alezanians]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:tehwalrus|Edward Shwarmph]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Altox bulb]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Robbi|Makarii Spitignev]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Aminfarances Institute of Science and Technomancy]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Deusx|Tamlin Moon]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Amphitheatre aristocracy]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Arnia|Fingest Arnia]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Andelphracian Lights]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Aquentravalkeration]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Jcowan|John Cowan]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Arariax]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:D8uv|Melik Fizzou]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[AuroAnthropology]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Avazian Box]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Pixel|Eric Vitiello]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Awal shrinkage]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Quezlarian numerals]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]]</td></tr>
</table>

Ghyll:Ghyll Index

2004-09-03T03:58:52Z

Qwentyth Pyre: /* Encyclopedia Entries */

The following is a list of all encyclopedia entries, who originally phantomed them, and the entry author.
<br />As a player, don't worry about maintaining this list - the admins can take care of it if you forget.

==Phantom Entries==

These are entries yet to be defined. You can also see phantoms [[Special:Wantedpages|sorted by number of citations]].

<table class="ghyllidx" style="float:left; padding-left: 1em; width:48%;">
<tr><th>Entry Name</th><th>Phantomed by</th></tr>
<tr><td>[[Alezan pantheon]]</td><td>[[User:Arnia|Fingest Arnia]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Aliens Everywhere]]</td><td>[[User:tehwalrus|Edward Shwarmph]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Aminfarances]]</td><td>[[User:Deusx|Tamlin Moon]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Bavarian Creame]]</td><td>[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Bobby Shwarmph]]</td><td>[[User:tehwalrus|Edward Shwarmph]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Brothers of the Lantern]]</td><td>[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Bureau of Forgotten Knowledge]]</td><td>[[User:Bartmoss|Bartmoss]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Burnflies]]</td><td>[[User:Arnia|Fingest Arnia]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Bysted Timperton]]</td><td>[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Council for Quezlarian Research]]</td><td>[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Cranee Historical Society]]</td><td>[[User:Crschmidt|Christopher Schmidt]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Deathbug]]</td><td>[[User:D8uv|Melik Fizzou]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Evesque Valley]]</td><td>[[User:D8uv|Melik Fizzou]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Folktown Records]]</td><td>[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]]</td></tr>
</table>

<table class="ghyllidx" style="float:right; padding-right: 1em; width:48%;">
<tr><th>Entry Name</th><th>Phantomed by</th></tr>
<tr><td>[[Iganefta]]</td><td>[[User:Robbi|Makarii Spitignev]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Jesper's Constant]]</td><td>[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Nanit]]</td><td>[[User:Pixel|Eric Vitiello]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Nitanmangrey]]</td><td>[[User:Jcowan|John Cowan]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Palace of Lost Souls]]</td><td>[[User:Bartmoss|Bartmoss]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Professor Altoxian]]</td><td>[[User:Robbi|Makarii Spitignev]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Quester and Phorrus]]</td><td>[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Spelgof]]</td><td>[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Splak]]</td><td>[[User:Deusx|Tamlin Moon]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Supetupheraraphes]]</td><td>[[User:Jcowan|John Cowan]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Third Avazian War]]</td><td>[[User:Pixel|Eric Vitiello]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Unquisition]]</td><td>[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Vorpcara]]</td><td>[[User:Crschmidt|Christopher Schmidt]]</td></tr>
</table>

<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==Encyclopedia Entries==

These entries have been defined.

<table class="ghyllidx" style="padding-left: 1em;">
<tr><th>Entry Name</th><th>Phantomed by</th><th>Defined by</th></tr>
<tr><td>[[Aelfants]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Agony uncle]]</td><td>[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]]</td><td>[[User:Morbus Iff|Morbus Iff]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Alarius]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Bartmoss|Bartmoss]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Alezan]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Crschmidt|Christopher Schmidt]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Alezanians]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:tehwalrus|Edward Shwarmph]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Altox bulb]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Robbi|Makarii Spitignev]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Aminfarances Institute of Science and Technomancy]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Deusx|Tamlin Moon]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Amphitheatre aristocracy]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Arnia|Fingest Arnia]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Andelphracian Lights]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Aquentravalkeration]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Jcowan|John Cowan]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Arariax]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:D8uv|Melik Fizzou]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[AuroAnthropology]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Joe Bowers|Joe Bowers]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Avazian Box]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Pixel|Eric Vitiello]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Awal shrinkage]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Ginestre|Ginestre]]</td></tr>
<tr><td>[[Quezlarian numerals]]</td><td>-</td><td>[[User:Sbp|Sean B. Palmer]]</td></tr>
</table>

Ghyll:Aelfants

2004-09-03T03:50:10Z

Qwentyth Pyre: added citations line

Aelfants are the unfortunate outcome of a tryst betwixt [[Pyxie]] and pachyderm. It is a little know fact that [[Pyxie]]s, when intoxicated on fermented [[Fefferberry]] wine will begin to shapeshift, and become quite randy. They are responsible for most of the legends of halfbreeds and man-monsters that have come down to us from long ago.

Alas, as the Aelfants' time has passed and their numbers have grown ever smaller, the few remaining Aelfants have retreated further and further west into the protective shadow of the two great [[Alezanians|Alezanian]] spires. They have fled the inhabited [[Evesque Valley]] never to be seen again.

'''Citations:''' [[Pyxie]], [[Fefferberry]]
----

Most people don't believe Aelfants truly exist, but I've seen one with my own two eyes. Just outside my garden, a few years back. I'll never forget that mighty beast's glowing, emerald hide.

I know most researchers are told to leave themselves out of the story, but I'm too old for that trefk. They can shove that "passive voice" nonsense right up an Aelfant's backside.
--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 21:50, 2 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ghyll:Aelfants

2004-09-03T01:50:23Z

Qwentyth Pyre:

Aelfants are the unfortunate outcome of a tryst betwixt [[Pyxie]] and pachyderm. It is a little know fact that [[Pyxie]]s, when intoxicated on fermented [[Fefferberry]] wine will begin to shapeshift, and become quite randy. They are responsible for most of the legends of halfbreeds and man-monsters that have come down to us from long ago.

Alas, as the Aelfants' time has passed and their numbers have grown ever smaller, the few remaining Aelfants have retreated further and further west into the protective shadow of the two great [[Alezanians|Alezanian]] spires. They have fled the inhabited [[Evesque Valley]] never to be seen again.

----

Most people don't believe Aelfants truly exist, but I've seen one with my own two eyes. Just outside my garden, a few years back. I'll never forget that mighty beast's glowing, emerald hide.

I know most researchers are told to leave themselves out of the story, but I'm too old for that trefk. They can shove that "passive voice" nonsense right up an Aelfant's backside.
--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 21:50, 2 Sep 2004 (EDT)

User talk:Qwentyth Pyre

2004-09-03T01:16:17Z

Qwentyth Pyre: Qwentyth's author speaks

And out of character, greetings to all fellow researchers and readers. I've never played in your world before, but this sounds like a lot of fun.

21:16, 2 Sep 2004 (EDT) Jesse

User:Qwentyth Pyre

2004-09-03T01:13:54Z

Qwentyth Pyre:

Hmmmm... well then. You say you want to know about old Qwentyth hmm? Not much to tell really. I was born in -58 {{EC}}, a contempoary of Windsor Creame, though I never met the man myself. I've lived alone just outside [[Evesque Valley]] for most of my life, and the children think I may be one of the last remaining [[Alezanians]]. Stupid kids. The idea keeps them out of my garden though, so I don't try to tell them otherwise. Heh.

When I heard the Great Council of Ghyll wanted to put together an encyclopedia, I knew they'd need old Qwentyth's help. So here I am, with all the knowledge I've collected over my long life to help correct you young'uns when you get it wrong.

--[[User:Qwentyth Pyre|Qwentyth Pyre]] 21:13, 2 Sep 2004 (EDT)

User:Qwentyth Pyre

2004-09-03T01:13:20Z

Qwentyth Pyre: Qwentyth Pyre's bio - crotchety old coot researcher who lives in the woods