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Has the Dotbomb Blown Your Relationships? Posted Thu Jun 7 00:13:04 2001 by orooney By Bill Lessard One guy I know was served divorce papers once his wife figured out that his company was going under. I'm sure, of course, there were other factors involved. But it was a real Felix Unger-type situation. His spouse called him at work one day, informing him that it was over and that she had removed half of the money from the joint account, whereupon he moved out of their co-op on the Upper East Side of Manhattan to a bare-assed loft in South Williamsburg. Another friend got the boot from his fiancee for similar reasons. Again, there must've been other things happening, but nontheless, it's very suspicious. Makes me think that if this guy had a boatload of IPO money, an extra effort would've been made "to work things out." And still more people I know are in very rocky situations because they can't find jobs. I have no statistics to back up anything I'm saying, but it seems to me that a lot of people have been breaking up lately, due in part to our economic downturn. What about you? I hope everything's OK.   Posted Comments: post a comment! Name: Email: Comment: Name: ronnie smith Email: http://www.moa@snip.net Date: Sun Jun 17 09:27:48 2001 Comment: your a bunch of lazy assholes,go out get a real job. a retired auto-worker. Name: aucontraire Email: Date: Sat Jun 16 02:36:01 2001 Comment: Wifey Sounds like sorry-ass Alek was on a mission, kind of like, John the Baptist. Prophets seldom give good reports about the status quo. History tells us little about John?s tired-ass wife. Was he even married? Name: Sorry Alek's ex Email: Date: Fri Jun 15 09:57:11 2001 Comment: Fired three times in nine years or live and learn that smart Alek is a sorry dude. Maybe I should have paid a lot more attention to the guy when he finally told me he had been fired from his last two jobs. After going out with him for three years and teaching him how to work the ropes of corporate america and how to save his job he got fired again. He is a very interesting , intelligent , very capable man who really didn't understand that other people didn't like to hear criticism all day long. While he wasn't wrong in his views ,he was too damm exhausting to be around long term. Of course, he was fired again because he iritated everyone, not because he didn't do a great job but because he couldn't keep his mouth closed for a half hour. He was fired on his birthday as a present to the rest of his group. ( they at least were thrilled to see him go). After a month or so of listening to the same old crap and watching someone who still hadn't learned anything from his experiences I fired him. It was one of the hardest and best things I ever did was to leave his sorry butt. Not for the lack of money since I made more than he did (we both had made the big bucks) but for the lack of willingness to examine his life and the impact of his actions. At least I learned a few things..... Name: modern Email: agent_alban@yahoo.com Date: Thu Jun 14 17:27:03 2001 Comment: It was the boom that ruined my relationship, since I only had time for work. May the so-called "dot-bomb" give us another chance at love. Name: Wally Email: wloude@excite.com Date: Mon Jun 11 23:01:38 2001 Comment: Real Chick wrote: "moral christian?! that's a joke right. between the crusades, slavery, and destruction of native american populations, christians don't have the best moral track record. give up the ghost. chriatianity has been a cover for the worship of money and manifest destiny for 400 yrs. it's imposition on the western world is in it's twilight." Slavery predated Christianity. The American Indians would have been destroyed by European diseases from which they had no immunity regardless of whther the conquistadores were Christian, Muslim, or still worshipped Jove/Jupiter. Name: Email: Date: Mon Jun 11 22:04:11 2001 Comment: he=her Name: Email: Date: Mon Jun 11 22:03:43 2001 Comment: Good for you Anon!! This song is for Ingrid. I thought it might cheer he up!! The Jones Boy The Jones Boy The whole town's talking about the Jones Boy The Jones Boy The Jones Boy The whole town's talking about the Jones Boy He acts mighty peculiar now The whole town's saying he was a good boy a nice boy a swell boy The whole town's saying he's not a well boy He just isn't the same somehow he hops he jumps so merrily over the water pumps he stops and then he comes to a pump and he'll jump again the buzz is over the fences that he's going out of his senses The whole town's talking about the Jones boy the poor boy the Jones boy But I just happen to be the Jones boy and I happen to be in love Viva la Sweden!!! Name: Anon Email: guess@where.com Date: Mon Jun 11 20:00:10 2001 Comment: Bless the dot-com crash! My wife and I have been having relationship problems for some time. To be direct, I'm an insufferable prick who needed to grow up. In early 2000 I was sitting on about 2 million in locked-up stock. It pretty much went to little-or-no value ... and we've been struggling since. What I found out was that my wife was completely pissed off at me (rightfully so) and would have left if we had gotten the cash. As it is we are stuck with each other (can't afford the divorce) and we're trying to make a go of it. I love the Dot-Bomb Crash! Broke, but hopeful. Name: Brian Davey Email: brian@bdavey.freeserve.co.uk Date: Mon Jun 11 08:26:24 2001 Comment: This is a test message from a friend to establish whether Brian's email and name can be displayed on the list. Name: Email: Date: Mon Jun 11 03:36:47 2001 Comment: Dear Bill, I'm curious why you removed my name. Brian Reply: From what? I don't understand. Bill, I typed my name in when I made a contribution to the discussion of broken marriages - but when I went back to have a look it was on the screen as being from: " ~~~~~~~~~~~" which left me puzzled. I assumed for some reason you must have changed it - I don't know how these things work so when I made a second contribution I typed in ~~~~~~ deliberately . Maybe it was just a glitch then - all the best Brian Dear Bill and Steve, I've concluded I don't really belong in Netslaves discussions. Either I respond by over -the-top sarcasm or with a censorious Holier than Thou know it all pointing out of other people's faults. I end up feel very ashamed and embarrassed. I guess I leave it to you to decide whether you want to continue the pathologies of time series but I don't think it appropriate to participate in the discussion any more as I clearly can't judge it right. (Leaving aside the doctoring of my name, however that is occurring). Take care Brian Dear Bill, What is going on? After apologising and trying to reveal my name I hit submit and the row of ~~~~~ comes on the screen again. So much for the democracy of the web. I'll stick to talking to people I know in the flesh. I question having any more of the time pathologies articl on if I cannot participate in the discussion. I can see now that the much vaunted web democracy will be cut off electronically when more powerful (electronic) interests decide that they want to censor us. Brian Dear Bill and Steve, Sorry. On yet further consideration I want to ask you not to proceed further with the time pathologies articles. I'm sorry, but I do not trust your site any more. In any case, given the circumstances, I dare say you don't particularly want to proceed further yourselves. I'm forwarding a copy of this to a colleague just so there's a record. Yours Brian, I haven't read your other mails, so I don't know what we did to upset you so much. We've been busy writing our book, and trying to survive. It has not been easy. In any case, we thank you for your previous articles. And we wish you the best. Bill Name: MindOverPersonae Email: Date: Sun Jun 10 16:50:57 2001 Comment: ~~~~~~~: --"a lot of the contributors on this web site frighten me by being so unsympathetic--" Dear Ingrid, You do seem like a pleasant soul posing serious questions. I apologize for what is now a pattern of rudeness on my part, and offer you more constructive consideration (you?re having a soothing effect on me I?m feeling better). But, please, get a name. Where to start? People who need sympathy should never seek it from strangers find a real support group. Most of us don?t know whom we?re really fucking with on this site, so the attacks aren?t personal. It?s just the clash of ideas, that?s all. Posting here is not a form of correspondence ?though I?m developing an urge to pen you a love letter? Much of this can be called ?rantage.? Ranting is more than ?attitude,? many of us harbor what are called as real ?issues.? Ranting is more like psychodrama, acting out, giving personae to your grievances and bitches. I agree, that lamentations would be more heartfelt, but high-tech is basically a man?s world we don?t sigh, we spit insults under our breath when constrained by human stupidity. Men also like to boast and kibbutz when they?re with their peers. Yes, some people are angry, or miffed, --including some women-- and that?s OK as long as they don?t hurt anybody. Sympathy? Sorry. Men, don?t do that. We support one another with information, ideas, links, suggestions, perhaps encouragement. To sympathize is to acknowledge your own weakness and the possibility of defeat. The writer John Milton was initially attacked as a heretic because some clerics felt that ?Paradise Lost? showed too much sympathy for the Devil and would undermine their sublime enterprise. I hope I have been helpful. Name: MindOverPersonae Email: Date: Sun Jun 10 08:36:04 2001 Comment: Dear Ingrid, You do seem like a pleasant soul posing serious questions. I apologize for what is now a pattern of rudeness on my part, and offer you more constructive consideration (you?re having a soothing effect on me I?m feeling better). But, please, get a name. Where to start? People who need sympathy should never seek it from strangers find a real support group. Most of us don?t know whom we?re really fucking with on this site, so the attacks aren?t personal. It?s just the clash of ideas, that?s all. Posting here is not a form of correspondence ?though I?m developing an urge to pen you a love letter? Much of this can be called ?rantage.? Ranting is more than ?attitude,? many of us harbor what are called as real ?issues.? Ranting is more like psychodrama, acting out, giving personae to your grievances and bitches. I agree, that lamentations would be more heartfelt, but high-tech is basically a man?s world we don?t sigh, we spit insults under our breath when constrained by human stupidity. Men also like to boast and kibbutz when they?re with their peers. Yes, some people are angry, or miffed, --including some women-- and that?s OK as long as they don?t hurt anybody. Sympathy? Sorry. Men, don?t do that. We support one another with information, ideas, links, suggestions, perhaps encouragement. To sympathize is to acknowledge your own weakness and the possibility of defeat. The writer John Milton was initially attacked as a heretic because some clerics felt that ?Paradise Lost? showed too much sympathy for the Devil and would undermine their sublime enterprise. I hope I have been helpful. Name: Carl Guderian Email: carlg@vermilion-sands.com Date: Sun Jun 10 06:50:52 2001 Comment: I think those of you feeling the most put-upon love-wise need to hop on over to the "summer fun" section of this website and get out more often (though if you live in South Africa, New Zealand, or Tierra del Fuego, heat your rum). I'm guessing the boomdotbust left most of us with the same problems we had before. Philanderers or gold-digging trophy wives are just people who haven't grown up. Can't find hot babes (or guys without Dunlop's disease or lice) in the tech world? Develop an outside interest, 'cos even if you find the techie of your dreams you two will bore other people. Herr Berlin, as religious matters go, I worship at the temple of the sacred Yoni. If I werer more religious, my choice would be Voudou. Local organization, priesthoods that don't exclude by gender, divine beings you can get drunk with and who look out for you in the afterlife, and a concept of the soul that rivals that of the ancient Egytians for complexity. And you can dance to it. I tried to decode the previous post and I got Notary Sojac. Name: Email: Date: Sun Jun 10 04:59:47 2001 Comment: Because some lover of free speech has found a means to electronicaly convert my name into a string of ~~~ I have coded it for those who want to know it. Take off one letter of the alphabet from each letter. In other words C should be B, S should be R etc. My Name in code is CSJBM EBWFZ Name: ~~~~~~~~~~~ Email: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Sun Jun 10 04:36:34 2001 Comment: I should identify myself as ~~~~~~~~ The reason that I did not put my name up arose out of a misunderstanding. I apologize for condescension. I hoped to avoid that charge by putting my remarks as questions. However, it was not right to have generalised from some responses of this web site to the USA as a whole. However, I will reformulate what I wanted to say in a slightly different way - a lot of the contributors on this web site frighten me by being so unsympathetic. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Name: madberlin Email: madberlin@space.com Date: Sat Jun 9 22:44:04 2001 Comment: real chick! are you kidding? do you always include the wrath of several different groups of people for christians? you are to be believed! lol! but remember that men and women are so caught up in the money situation that we all loose site of love. It's more important to us to worship money and power than GOD. That's how it is, like it or not. I am changing that however! Although women don't like it! they would rather have you all over them than act morally responsible. Can you believe it? that's how our world is though. If you are suggesting that our history is somehow responsible, you are wrong! Just look at our future, it's bleak at best! unless your talking to the man upstairs on a reg. basis! Be prepared real chick! I feel sorry for you and others like you! hopefully you will understand, not be enraged! Name: NoPriors Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 19:32:12 2001 Comment: Hey ccacbfa: You sound interesting. I think I might be able to restore your joy with some nice new dating concepts. Pray tell, what do you look like? Come on be honest. Name: MindOverPersonae Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 19:05:21 2001 Comment: Hey meatball. If you want a starting point for ?exploration? you might start by identifying yourself: got a name, Ingrid? Learn some manners. Long, condescending posts from anonymous jerks are offensive Dear Ingrid ?or whatever-- Please excuse my brashness in addressing you. I have spent much time in Europe and appreciate the intellectual earnestness of its elite. You manage to project a rather sweet personae (prolly masking a little tyrant). Believe me, this website is not typical of America so spare us your quick analysis. If you want the general flavor of our nation, engage the discussants at AOL or MSNBC and the like. You, mistakenly, turned down the wrong alley and stepped into the gritty world of disillusioned dreamers and disenchanted hopefuls. These folks have every reason in the world to be pissed off, so let them rant in peace. You would too, if you understood that the future of innovation has been bum-rushed by the same crappy cabal of Euro-Americans who are currently programming your nation?s tiresome cycles of social reproduction and class-ism. Three cheers for NetSlaves, where the tired, the hungry, and the unfortunate can at least get together to express themselves. Name: Aikibu Email: whazen@earthlink.net Date: Sat Jun 9 18:02:36 2001 Comment: wah wah wah wah!!! Most of you are arguing about cause and conditions and the ironic part is you have the luxury to do so( This after all... is not Rawanda,Bosnia, or Chechnya).Most of our culture is basically a toxic mess and like my man/woman Firewallfright says you have no real clue who you really are. Stop whining about "them"! Happiness is an inside job folks...For Gosh Sakes you babies... WAKE UP and LIVE!!! You were not put on the planet just to a have a UHaul tow your shit behind a(read YOUR) hearse. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Name: ccacbfa Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 17:05:10 2001 Comment: right on, real chick. dating HAS been like a job interview - no fucking fun at all. the last real dating / possible relationship ive had was almost a year and a half ago. he dumped me 'cause i just wasn't quite elite enough for him. it seems the general consensus here is that it's hard to have sympathy for either party, and that's right. but from a woman's pov men complain the most about 'loyalty' when nothing could be further from their minds when supposedly looking for a mate. wow guys, cynical 'cause she turned out to be shallow? quel suprise! what would you expect of the kind of woman answering the ad i read last month on san francisco CL (the printout of which is currently one of my most prized possessions). title: 'the real deal:' "it's all in the fastlane... (extensive description of his hard body and multiple degrees and tenacious tongue. "real" champagne, hot tubs, and apres ski are some of the other inducements.) here's who you are: ...worldly, young woman between 21 and 39...a perfect 10...32C-22-32 to 36DD-28-38, well proportioned, no exceptions. perfect hygiene. beautiful face, medium to long hair, at least partially shaved in the right place (think). a smile to light up a room...please be gainfully employed..conform to specs. also, have a relaxed appreciation for the finer things in life - i am a big flirt and expect you to do the same...you will be the one, however, body and soul should be allowed to be free spirits, leaving us room to occasionally enjoy other friends individually and together. you don't have to be a nympho, but a healthy appetite for fun is expected. responses with pictures preferred." oh WELL, thank god, I don't HAVE to be a nympho! WHAT a relief! snort. I mean, who needs comedy writers? this shit writes itself! like I say, dating is absofuckinglutely no fun at all anymore. i have no idea what the solution is except to have fun on my own and not even think about on serendipitously meeting someone. some sort of zen thing, i don't know. reading this every once in awhile is always good for a laugh...and I think, one less guy I will be glad never to meet...you know, out of the way in favor of a real guy i really do want to meet?? now, I'm getting out of the house as I have used my total allotment of sitting on my ass in front of a screen.... and THAT's the real deal. Name: Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 16:15:24 2001 Comment: Hey meatball. If you want a starting point for ?exploration? you might start by identifying yourself: got a name, Ingrid? Learn some manners. Long, condescending posts from anonymous jerks are offensive. LOL! Name: MindOverPersonae Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 15:49:55 2001 Comment: Jenny, are you asking a question, or just assuming I?m a man? Name: Jennifer Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 15:43:11 2001 Comment: Hey meatball. If you want a starting point for ?exploration? you might start by identifying yourself: got a name, Ingrid? Learn some manners. Long, condescending posts from anonymous jerks are offensive. This from a man identified as MindOverPersonae Name: Jennifer Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 15:41:02 2001 Comment: (a lone man speaks up) "I'm not!" Monty Python's "Life Of Brian" Name: MindOverPersonae Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 15:39:14 2001 Comment: ~~~~~ Hey meatball. If you want a starting point for ?exploration? you might start by identifying yourself: got a name, Ingrid? Learn some manners. Long, condescending posts from anonymous jerks are offensive. Name: Jennifer Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 15:38:50 2001 Comment: Brian (not wanting to be a messiah): "You are all individuals..." Crowd (in unison): "We are all individuals..." Monty Python's "Life Of Brian" Name: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 14:59:17 2001 Comment: I find it very difficult to read, understand and judge your American responses. I don't know if I am being too earnest or too righteous but a lot of the answers, to my viewpoint from outside your country, seem to sum up to: "(Other)people are mean and dumb, so who cares if their lives are unhappy and lonely, they deserve what they get, what's new?zzzz.." The street wise, hip and cool thing to be is cynical, embittered and, therefore by implication, realistic about life. Maybe the people who writing this stuff are actually nicer underneath - perhaps its just the fashion to be seen to be bitter. Or does this really tell me what you Americans are like? Yet, when I look at the homicide rates which are 4 to 5 times higher than in western Europe and note that in New York the homicide rate is higher than in the slums of Calcutta I think that maybe there is a serious problem in US society. Mostly people don't like other people. That's the competitive society for you I suppose. Everyone wants to be a CEO. So then the big manager goes home from his job and manages his wife and children and they would probably be happier if he was still back at the office. If he loses his job and he's with them all the time then they are going to be very unhappy.....It is clear that wealth has not brought happiness to America and one has to ask what hope for happy relationships there is in a society if it really is ordinary for people to regard each other like this. But looking from outside the USA who am I to judge? I might have got it all wrong. However, if things are as bad as this then it has consequences. Netslaves writes consistently around various themes - about good business planning, about social justice and some people like to make the case for trade unions. But like sustainable marriages all three require that people are able to develop and maintain long term trust relationships, a certain amount of solidarity. (What use is a business plan if people move on once it is written). In fact, without a more sympathetic viewpoint towards other people's problems one cannot look at any problem between people in depth. "The suckers deserve what they get" viewpoint cannot be a starting point for any kind of exploration of problems. It cuts off further looking at things, leads to no insights and to no solutions. So - am I right to perceive the US as a compassionless society? Name: MindOverPersonae Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 14:31:52 2001 Comment: Poor Jenny Hey Jenny, have you ever considered that ?abusive idiocy? may be a hereditary disease? Show some compassion and respect for your Pops. You might be next. Name: OprahdopedMe Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 14:25:06 2001 Comment: "Maybe the Dotbomb Will Bring Them Together Looks like we have a match here. Don?t Bill and Jenny deserve each other? Pobrecitos! Name: Bill Volk Email: bvolk@youworkit.com Date: Sat Jun 9 14:13:41 2001 Comment: Unshaven, I admit it, I have been an unsufferable ass to everyone around me at times. I'm married ... and have been for 18 years. It's not been 'bliss' ... sometimes it's great, sometimes is a world of pain. It's been worth it becuase I have a shared life with someone I care. I just wish I realized this more often as acted less like an ass. It just SO EASY to treat the people close to you badly ... and over the years that can be like a drip of water wearing down the stone. Anyone who thinks "I'm O.K., you suck" is going to have a very difficult time living with someone else. Wish me luck, I'm going to need it. Name: Jennifer Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 13:10:44 2001 Comment: Hmm I believe I posted something about how angry men with no life always come to dominate discussion forums! Fact is it takes to incomes in this country to feed and clothe the little ones, and that is the way our economy works. I haven't given birth to any thankyou, and I am not sure I want to. My father became and abusive idiot when he lost his business. I was 14, my sisters were 3 and 1. I wish my mother would have left, but it was still more expensive to divorce, and my parents were Roman Catholics. I still was the build in babysitter, and I had to deal with his verble an psychological abuse. Name: Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 11:48:35 2001 Comment: zzzzzz Name: Harvard MBA Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 11:32:45 2001 Comment: I stay in touch with people who were on my debating team, because they are the brightest and most upstanding young Americans I've ever met. But I have no interest in reaching beneath me, to the level of scum that you find here on unregulated sites such as netslaves. The end is coming for you all - just like Robert McNamara predicted years ago. Name: ~~~~~~~~~~~ Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 05:28:10 2001 Comment: This is a very serious topic. The problem is that in a ten sentence opinion bite it isn't possible to do justice to the complexity of the topic and all the possible ways of seeing it. I personally think it is sad if two people break up because one of them loses their job and money. It is sad for both parties. It is sad because the relationship was probably not based on real affection or sympathy in the first place so it may have been naive on the part of both parties. It is sad because no one likes to be deserted. It is sad because if one party leaves mainly because of money - then they are probably never going to be happy anyway. There are serious questions here about the distorting effects when people put money before emotional relationships. However there may be reasons that people split up that call for more sympathy - for example not everyone has a full repetoire of practical domestic coping skills. They just never acquired them as they grew up. When life gets hard some people (particularly men but some women too) may not have the domestic skills to equip and run a household on a great deal less money. Also, the loss of money and a job may bring about other life style changes which make it difficult or impossible for people to match up their time together well. They may be together more than before - but with one person demoralised and depressed and the other one not knowing how to cope with that. People are commonly forced into night work or evening work in situations like this - or are obliged to look for a job elsewhere. This is bound to erode any relationship. However moving to look for a new job is always a dilemma in a two job household. I read somewhere that in the USA people move on average every two years. Is this true? If so its a marvel there are any relationships at all in the USA. Name: Unshaven Email: Date: Sat Jun 9 01:14:38 2001 Comment: Bill, When I was a young man, I couldn?t grasp the concept of strip tease. It seemed to me the exploitive treatment of old geezers, required to pay hard earned cash to simply gaze at something. I couldn?t understand paying for pussy either. I grew up in macho-ass Spanish Harlem where goosing girls in the playground didn?t prompt saturation police coverage. Now that I am older and wiser, I have come to appreciate the efficacy of the old men?s practices. As the saying goes ?An elder who is seated can see twice as far as a young man standing.? Here?s the deal. I spent part of this gorgeous afternoon on 125th Street, having decided to pay my telephone bill before they cut it off and disrupted my Internet access. I step out of the subway and find a nice spot near it?s entrance to smoke a cigarette and admire the wondrous physical beauty of the women who pass by in skin tight-ass fitting clothes, micro-minis and the like. And I marvel, ?nice on the eyes, no?? Women were created with curves and charms to be admired and appreciated by men, but not adored. That much is free. ? If you touch one, it will cost you something (in coin or jail time). ? If you couple with one, you are at your weakest and most vulnerable, and there are long-term consequences. The geezers know the deal full well. Pay the cover charge, buy a drink, get an eyeful and get back home to your wife and kids. Name: Bill Volk Email: bvolk@youworkit.com Date: Fri Jun 8 22:05:38 2001 Comment: Unshaven, I take it then, that you are not in a long term relationship? Seriously, are you? Name: Unshaven Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 20:58:22 2001 Comment: Abuse????? Bill Volk argues that women divorce men because of abuse, among other things.Let?s consider "abuse." The general concept implies taking undo advantage of someone in a weaker position than you. Men have no monopoly in this vice moreover, they are hardly the major players. CONCEPT: Abuse is A CRIME OF PROXIMITY. People don?t travel a thousand miles to abuse someone, just ANYONE they strike out at the one at hand. The number of men who strike out against their spouses is minimal when compared to abusive female behavior. 1. Child Abuse. The overwhelming majority of child abuse cases involve women, torturing, slapping, and insulting their children at home and, increasingly, in public places. If men treated their spouses this way, they?d be in prison, for life. Think about, we?ve all seen it in NYC, and elsewhere. I heard a woman on the bus the other day tell her toddler to ?Chill, or I?ll fuck you up.? 2. Elder Abuse. The elderly are routinely abused, physically and verbally in private homes and nursing facilities across the country. It?s an epidemic. The fact is that WOMEN are the dominant caregivers of the aged. Go figure. In MODERN American society, men and women have been legislated as equals. Thus, when they go to war, it?s a battle among peers (so to speak), and the best MAN will eventually win, one way or another. OTH, to abuse children and the aged is all the more despicable, since they can?t file for a divorce. Name: Bill Volk Email: bvolk@youworkit.com Date: Fri Jun 8 20:55:27 2001 Comment: Hey I'm going thru some tough personal times right now ... but ... I believe that my workaholic and rather intense personal nature makes it VERY hard for anyone to deal with me. Awareness is the first part of the solution ... as long as you blame the other person, you don't get ANYWHERE. Seriously. (Married for almost 18 years, no clue how...) Name: Unshaven Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 20:15:07 2001 Comment: RIGHT Bill Volk writes: ?I'd say that 25% of my kid's classmates at the fancy private school are rich guys trophy marrages.? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again. And, just what percentage of the general male population might that represent? Let me see??. About eighty percent of American workers earn less than 40 thousand dollars. So, that rules them out from private elite schools. Thus, (if yours is a random sample) about 25 percent of the rich men in America, who can afford to do so, dump their boring-ass, bitchy wives for something more soft and perky. Your statistics confirm that the overwhelming majority of (rich) men (75 percent) stick it out. So much for the men. What about the women? My point is that 80 percent of all the ?dumping? is being done by WOMEN --NOT MEN, for a complex of reasons, including greed, willfulness, envy, emotional instability, etc. etc. etc. So, why focus on male behavior?, Duh? Name: Bill Volk Email: bvolk@youworkit.com Date: Fri Jun 8 18:58:57 2001 Comment: WRONG: >Yeah, yeah, yeah?Really, how many American men >are rich and successful and dump their wives for >better ones? I'd say that 25% of my kid's classmates at the fancy private school are rich guys trophy marrages. I'd also bet that most women divorce men for... 1. Affairs (man had one). 2. Abuse. 3. Emotional distance (no relationship there). Bill Name: real chick Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 15:50:39 2001 Comment: negitiveland is too. Name: Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 15:49:20 2001 Comment: communism is good Name: Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 15:16:28 2001 Comment: Christianity is stupid. Name: firewallfright Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 14:26:00 2001 Comment: I agree with both of the anon posters about media perception of perfection. The problem seems to be that most people seem to be consuming this media-fed bull shit and not making decisions based on their own experiences or thought processes. Now I am as much a sucker as the next guy for the latest "scoop", but I would hope that society, as a whole, could move on past the "mindless zombie" stage of behavior and individuals start assessing their own values and bouncing them off of what the rag mags say our values should be. IOW, we need to think for ourselves and not let media, in any form, think for us. Name: real chick Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 14:08:26 2001 Comment: the point is that this is a loser meets loser situation. moral christian?! that's a joke right. between the crusades, slavery, and destruction of native american populations, christians don't have the best moral track record. give up the ghost. chriatianity has been a cover for the worship of money and manifest destiny for 400 yrs. it's imposition on the western world is in it's twilight. Name: madberlin Email: madberlin@space.com Date: Fri Jun 8 13:48:20 2001 Comment: These women are just low lifes! Men have been the breadwinners for years and eventhough women work, men are still the main income. Women are taking advantage of us by judging our worth by money. Money isn't everything, but your child is! I chose to take a less paying job so I can have more time with my child and being a single parent, I can attest in the fact that there are no moral christian women out there right now! Name: Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 13:21:09 2001 Comment: prolly the same way society is defining the most eligible women, size 3 - 4, 34 - 38" bust 5'5" 105 - 110 lbs. Let's face it, we're all being told that this is where it's at, and it's nonsense. There are a lot of good women and men out there, not too many of us believe it. Name: Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 12:46:08 2001 Comment: I hate stereotypes and generalities. They have a way of perpetuating themselves and becoming self-fulfilling prophecies. How does society define "most eligible bachelor"? Money, looks, money, personality and money. How are women supposed to react to the perpetuated standards? Many accept them as legitimate and realistic standards, which leaves them thinking that the men that the media say are "perfect" (or close to it) are "perfect" for them. Now, I am not saying that women are not capable of seeing how ridiculous those standards are, but I can understand how some confusion can occur. I only wish the media would stop perpetuating the myth... Name: Unshaven Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 11:58:31 2001 Comment: DJMZ, I had to straighten out the tortured logic of your post. Here?s my best deconstruction: For every gold-digging woman, there is some jerk?(who gets screwed). For every guy who ditches his first wife and kids as soon as she gets a few miles on her and trades up for a new model (some gold-digging woman strikes it rich). Name: who'shappy? Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 11:41:50 2001 Comment: BTW, I recently saw that mature porno flick reissued under the title ?Jane n? Jill Fall Down the Hill and They Can?t Get Up.? Name: Unshaven Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 11:39:59 2001 Comment: Real Chick, I saw that movie too. Where the real world ?make my own way bitch? ?played by Bette Davis?spends her final years under restraints in a mental institution, raving about the injustice of it all. Name: Kernel Panic Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 11:39:50 2001 Comment: real chick: WOW!!! Seperate bank accounts! COOL!!!! Will you marry me? hehe. Ok....you have any sisters? That's awesome! Name: real chick Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 11:17:34 2001 Comment: unshaven- it's a single woman's rule of thumb that men don't keep their commitments. if a woman wants kids, have enough cash to support them herself. if she wants a house, buy her own. and to NEVER have a joint bank account. i've seen far more of men just bolting on a whim from relationships and obligations. believe me, if i ever lost my sanity and got married, there would be a pre-nup to protect my money and real estate. i've had more than one man try to get money from me, and i'm not even rich, i'm barely holding on to a middle class existence. same with my mother. her husband who earns 4 times as much wakes her in the middle of the night to sign financial papers when she doesn't know what she's signing. after sinking her, he physically threatens her to stay in line. and he lays a good "I'm a poor victim of women" rap. cut the crap. Name: Dr. Phil Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 11:04:07 2001 Comment: Corrections Interesting anonymous observations about the occupational hazards of the corrections industry. But I would not be so quick to assume that this is a karmic outcome for being an asshole. Dentists also have a very high rate of suicide, and nurses have a rate of drug abuse and family strife. And these are caring professions. What they have in common with prison guards is: a) their jobs are very stressful, and b) they must WITNESS a lot of human suffering Name: Unshaven Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 10:54:46 2001 Comment: DJMZ Yeah, yeah, yeah?Really, how many American men are rich and successful and dump their wives for better ones? Maybe 20 each year, maybe a hundred? That?s a silly stereotype. The fact is ?Men propose and women dispose.? Meaning: eighty percent of marriages are initiated by men, while eighty percent of divorces are initiated by women, for whatever reasons --including greed and ambition. Name: DJMZ Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 10:37:17 2001 Comment: For every gold-digging woman, there is some jerk of a guy who ditches his first wife and kids as soon as she gets a few miles on her and trades up for a new model. You see these rich old guys profiled all the time in celebrity mags, photographed with their trophy wives and trophy toddlers. And they always say, "I was a lousy Dad the first time around, and now I'm trying to make up for it." I always wonder, make up what to whom? I wish more people could be like my parents who respected and supported each other through more than 50 years of good times and bad, wars, floods, job upheavals, kids, doctor bills, etc. and lived happily ever after till death did them part. Name: Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 08:42:52 2001 Comment: I worked in a prison, posted about this before. Corrections officers have an insanely high divorce rate, suicide rate, substance abuse rate and here's the kicker. . . I once saw in a trade magazine, yes, corrections has trade publications, that the life expectancy of the average corrections officer is somewhere in his 50's. Most of the people who go for that job like to abuse people, some psychologically, some physically, some both. This kind of personality has untold amounts of hostility built up for whaterer reason and are the living embodiment of the law of karma in action. The situation in which they work is an endless litany of bad vibe from both inmates and their (collegues?) which, in turn, only makes them more cynical, defensive and hostile. That they even wonder at this only reinforces people's perception of their collective stupidity. Moral of the story, don't be an asshole. Name: Ron Email: rjasc@mail.com Date: Fri Jun 8 08:20:45 2001 Comment: I know there are alot of women who sell themselves (so to speak) to the highest bidder. "What, you don't have a big paycheck anymore? Well then I am outa here." And oh, by the way - I made sure to drain the bank account and run up the credit cards before I left you. Name: Kernel Panic Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 08:02:25 2001 Comment: Hey..There's alot of money in Old Lady Lezbian porn! That gives me an idea! I'll add that as a feature to my midget porn site! http://www.lollypopguild.com Who needs VC when have this quality! The boss will love this idea! Holly cow! I may even get a webby award! whoohoo!! Name: who'shappy? Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 00:55:39 2001 Comment: Sorry. The film was called: ?Jane Jill Fall Down the Hill and Master Po Surveys The Landing.? Name: jaded Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 00:19:38 2001 Comment: Maybe they're just sick and tired of listening to you whine about the .com falldown. Name: MasterPo Email: Date: Fri Jun 8 00:02:10 2001 Comment: Don't leave us in suspence - what's the name of the flick?!?!? :-) Name: steve gilliard Email: sgilliard@netslaves.com Date: Thu Jun 7 21:25:19 2001 Comment: Happy, You win. Mature sex workers. Hey, at least they had the last laugh. Name: who'shappy? Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 20:46:44 2001 Comment: Grow up yourself Steve my best friend?s mother was an ambitious willful wench who drove her kids and husband to alcohol and drug abuse. She was always pushing everyone to be all that they could be, AND then more. When her family couldn?t attain the goals she had set, she divorced them all and ran off with a lesbian partner to Las Vegas where they became AC/DC sex workers known infamously as Jane and Jill. After many years, I recently saw the two in a ?mature? porno flick doing everything imaginable, probably for 300 . I guess they got what they deserved. Name: kernel panic Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 19:49:45 2001 Comment: Your regex parser fried my tags man! Name: Kernel panic Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 19:48:31 2001 Comment: >Grow up. You cannot make your wife happy. You cannot make anyone happy. That's exactly right. You can't make a person feel or do anything. You especially can't make a mate WANT to be with you. ltrantgt Steve...My uncle was a Marine Corps tyrant at home. He treated his entire family, (including us) like private first class shit for brains. Now he's divorced...both kids commited suicide...and a homeless drunk, selling blood plasma, and working at the dish washing temp service. He literally lives in a tent on the back few acres of my parent's estate. That somebitch knows better than to ask US for anything. Just goes to show ya....what goes around comes around. lt/rantgt Name: who'shappy? Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 19:42:13 2001 Comment: Pardon. I don't listen to Howard Stern. Name: Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 19:39:46 2001 Comment: ??????? Name: steve gilliard Email: sgilliard@netslaves.com Date: Thu Jun 7 19:12:21 2001 Comment: When I was a kid, I thought all military men were the Great Santini at home. Now, I realize that poor Pat Conroy grew up in an abusive home with an asshole for a father. Most of the military guys I've met dote on their kids. Why? Because when you're busting people's asses all day or plotting to kill, using the same methods at home suck ass. Especially if you want to keep a family. I think the kind of people who bring their job home and treat their family like coworkers either have happy families because they treat people with care, compassion and respect or they lose their families because they are insane and abusive. Happy, Grow up. You cannot make your wife happy. You cannot make anyone happy. If they choose to be unhappy, that is not something you can fix. Which is why Howard Stern now lives alone in Manhattan. Name: Kernel Panic Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 18:58:58 2001 Comment: Being just a bystander.....I'd say...If you don't have any children in common....be done with the bitch. Especially if she's made it clear that she wants out due to the job situation. That's bullshit. You don't marry a person's job. Divorce makes a man think some really crazy things...I know first hand. There's only one diffrence, between screwing you over this time and screwing you over next time. The next time it will be easier....see, she'll have experience at it then. Maybe I'm wrong in reading this much into it....but there you go. Name: Queenie Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 17:56:08 2001 Comment: Hmmm, guys, i think if the relationship is truly based on love and respect, it'll last even through the hard times when the dude is being the office-ass at home. it's the worst of times that truly test a relationship and makes it stronger. of course, there are exceptions like in everything else. Name: who'shappy? Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 17:44:51 2001 Comment: Bill. Like you don?t already have enough to work on --now it?s your responsibility to make sure your significant other is happy? Give her some kids, that?s what they do ?keep her happy by following her commands Name: Bill Volk Email: bvolk@youworkit.com Date: Thu Jun 7 17:31:39 2001 Comment: More Hard Reality... It isn't just the execs.... the work-a-holic techie ... the "my job is my life" designers ... they may think their "signifigent other" is leaving because they don't have money ... but that just a rationalization of their behavior. Like I said, I got to work on all of this. Name: Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 16:54:47 2001 Comment: WTF?! Real techies don't have girlfriends... you're all just posers! Name: MasterPo Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 16:53:26 2001 Comment: Bill makes an excellent point! Many women love a tough as nails, cut throat, always hungry, go for the million dollar deal business man. But a guy like that isn't just that way 9-to-5. If he treats business associates that way odds are good he treats "friends" (if he really has any) the same way too. IOW, you can't be an asshole during at the office and a human being at home. As the Eagle's song says "Every form of refuge has it's price!" Name: steve gilliard Email: sgilliard@netslaves.com Date: Thu Jun 7 16:46:57 2001 Comment: Remember Tanya Corrin? She pretty much created a career off of former boyfriend Josh Harris's dick. With no real talent or skill, she fucked her way into Pseudo. Now, when it turned out that Harris was a man-child pushing 40 with no real clue as to live (his attempts to turn her out in homemade fuck flicks might have been a hint), she suddenly realizes that he will provide neither picket fence nor brats. Then she runs to the Observer to run him down in print. Oooops. What did she expect from a guy who goes by the handle luvy the clown. If she actually had a marketable skill which people needed, she might not have spent the last half-decade as a millionaire's playtoy. She made no effort to develop a life a man who wasn't a millionaire would be interested in, and thus had to whine, piss and moan about the whole thing. When you live for the success of other people, you may find yourself quite disappointed in how your life turns out. Name: Bill Volk Email: bvolk@youworkit.com Date: Thu Jun 7 16:40:32 2001 Comment: Here's a hard truth... Many of the guys who THINK their wife left them because they lost money etc... are WRONG. They leave them because this shit-storm of a industry can turn you into a insufferable asshole and/or true heartless bastard. I find it very hard to switch from "tough as hell businessman" to "kind commpassionate husband and dad ..." but I'm going to work on it. Or else... Name: kernel Panic Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 16:00:39 2001 Comment: If you use wealth (or anything else for that matter) to attract a mate, why would you be suprised, when she looses intrest when it's gone? I'd say you baited yourself there! "Who'd walk away from a fool and his money"? Let a chick "bling bling" all over me! Sure...I'd go for it! Who wouldn't? Try as we might.....we'll never alter the laws of nature. Males want the youngest,healthiest mate possible to bear offspring, Females want the fittest male, to protect and provide. Nothing new here. Name: gd wimsett Email: gary@corante.com Date: Thu Jun 7 15:51:24 2001 Comment: 200 hairdos! Are you some kind of hydra? Oh, you meant ()200 hairdos. Gotcha. I'm down with the hiker chicks - assuming proper hygiene of course. Never had dough - never will. Don't want it. Mo Money, Mo Problems. Until the corporate drones figure out a way to downsize my dotcompletely huge thingy, i'll be just fine. Name: Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 15:37:34 2001 Comment: There are nonmaterialistic women around. And we're not all fat--many are hikers, etc. Where do you find them? Environmental groups are a good place to start. But we don't wear Prada and whatever it is this year. So some dot-commers probably would consider us "ugly" because we don't have 200 hairdos...We'll just go on giving it to our fellow environmental (and tremendously fit!) nonmaterialistic guys. Name: Clark Savage, Jr. Email: clarksavage@earthlink.net Date: Thu Jun 7 15:25:04 2001 Comment: I've only got a moment, but couldn't let this go without commenting. Since my fiance and I met towards the end of 1997, I've been layed off twice, and she hasn't had a regular job since early '98. I fuss at her a lot about money and am on her regularly to find a job...ANY job (within reason, natch!). I'm upset at our financial situation, but I know she's trying - however hard. It's not easy, not fun, but we're still together and I love her as much now as I did then. -Clark Savage, Geek of Bronze Name: Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 15:10:09 2001 Comment: 3 words - "eight inch dick" Name: Emily Dresner-Thornber Email: zenith@evilkitten.org Date: Thu Jun 7 15:02:52 2001 Comment: Wow. Today on Netslaves, I learned I was personally responsible for the stagnation of wages in the United States, a gold-digging whore, shallow, and a man-hater. Where did that therapy thread go again? Anyway, last I checked, I'm still happily married. Two layoffs and some stress, but we're still doing okay. Besides, in times like these, we need each other. It's okay to be happy in the "for better," but it's the "for worse" that is really telling. Name: Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 14:04:26 2001 Comment: zzzzzzzzz Name: Aikibu Email: whazen@earthlink.net Date: Thu Jun 7 13:53:31 2001 Comment: You just don't get most of you do you...Whatever you put out into the universe you get back...If you project your success as a means of attracting someone well by golly don't be surprised at the result LOL. Now if you want to know hwat kind of person you are just look around you... who are your friends and why. This is not rocket science if you value things be prepared to suffer the consequences... if you value spirit and character then to the people in your life it does not matter what you have they love you for who you are. Shut off MTV and the E' channel and start living...Pretty simple really... but putting it into practice will be the hardest thing you do in your life. Namaste' Name: Jess Kidding Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 13:37:28 2001 Comment: A guy meets an attractive woman in a bar. He asks her, straight up, ?If I buy you a drink, will you come home with me?? She tells him to shove off. He apologizes, says he was just kidding. He points to a fire red Ferrari parked in front of the bar, ?Wanna go for a spin?? She nods. He stops at the door, ?OK now that we both know what you are, let?s agree on the price. Name: Unshaven Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 13:35:59 2001 Comment: DJMZ That's the problem with so-called relationships. Get married and take the vow: "for better or for worst" Name: Adam Smith Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 13:34:20 2001 Comment: I suspect most of these relationships were about as genuine as the dot-bomb companies you bozos worked for. It's just more of what you deserve. Name: DJMZ Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 13:26:44 2001 Comment: A guy out of work can turn into a real S.O.B., sitting around unshaven in his underwear watching daytime TV, feeling inadequate and insecure, grousing constantly about how the boss screwed him over, drinking/doping heavily, kicking the dog, maybe taking a few swings at the Little Woman. Maybe she was always complaining that her workaholic husband/boyfriend never spent any time at home, and now she's seeing way too much of him and doesn't like what she sees. Name: Impervious Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 12:54:20 2001 Comment: A word to the wise: when times get tough, (many) women are too easily persuaded that they are at war with the men in their lives. Name: real chick Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 12:50:12 2001 Comment: Po- They have matching values-- that's the point. Having those values makes whining about the outcome assinine on either side of the equation. Name: Literary Guy Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 12:50:02 2001 Comment: KindaWondering Sure you?re right. Money is part and parcel of what rich men project. It?s called ?success.? And they can be pretty up front about it all, in everyone?s face: ?I?m Mr. Success, love Me.? But how many women introduced themselves correctly:? I?m a whore, I?ll worship you for money.? I suspect very few. For, if they did, they?d be paid by the hour. Name: MasterPo Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 12:47:27 2001 Comment: Kinda - It takes 2 to tango. It might not have been the most benevolent way to attract a woman but it works. Now she may have come to the guy for reasons in addition to the money but now leaving when the money is gone clearly shows where her priorities are. Name: KindaWondering Email: dorieinsf@aol.com Date: Thu Jun 7 12:40:05 2001 Comment: I've always been curious about something. When a guy has bucks and uses them to attract chicks, it's OK because the money is "part of who I am". Then when the money dries up and the chick goes looking for greener pastures, she's a gold-digging bitch. Why is that? Name: Impervious Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 12:38:52 2001 Comment: Chris G. Why the indignation? Is this taboo? Facts: Bush has not been in Office for twenty years. Wages are stagnant because of excess labor supply, duh. Women today work for less, because they accept less. They don?t organize for just compensation (like the ILGWU) instead, they agitate for parity with men by legislation. v Name: real chick Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 12:36:18 2001 Comment: HA! Please... dating has been a form of furthering career ambitions all during the boom. Guys name/money-drop on women that will make the best on-arm-accessory. There hasn't been a lot of soul sharing depth in the dot com club scene. Now the shallow relationships are falling apart?! Gosh! How'd that happen. Every date I've had since 1998 has felt like some perverse job interview. Guy seeking his own personal business dinner hostess... and I don't make whore-o'derves. Time for everyone to spend their unemployment dredging their abandoned soul from the glitter-pasted gutter. Name: MasterPo Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 12:28:19 2001 Comment: Steve, seems we can still agree on somethings afterall. There may yet be hope for you. :-) Even if times kept going good for you, she is obviously more into money than into you. Sooner or later she will meet someone else who has more money and/or better earnings prospects than you do and she'll be gone anyway. Dead On - Pssst, it's "Entrepreneur". Name: steve gilliard Email: sgilliard@netslaves.com Date: Thu Jun 7 12:03:52 2001 Comment: Actually, the guy who got tossed out on his ass deserved it. Fuck him and his progeny. Look, here's the deal: if a woman would leave you over getting fired, she's worthless. There's a big difference between being a bum and being broke. Life is not easy. Either you have people who will hang with you or they won't. If they won't, then you need them out of your life. Loyalty is no small thing. If a woman decides to dump your ass over money, she'd have found another reason anyway. Either you're loyal to someone or not. In the end, money is only one factor. If someone is looking to be disloyal, they'll find a way. Name: Dead On Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 11:49:47 2001 Comment: Right on the money. When the options seem like you'll be rollin' in dough, all things do get worked out. You are, 'esteemed' My Hungarian great-grandfather said many times: "Without bread and wine, love flys out the window" He was an entrapanure, so was his son, his son\ and now me. We repeat this because it is very bitter to watch relationships sour along with the biz. Name: Chris G Email: chris@rashmagazine.com Date: Thu Jun 7 11:48:46 2001 Comment: Impervious, so it's women's fault that wages are stagnant? well, that's a relief! and all along i thought it was america's misguided vestigal protestant work ethic coming back to bite us in the ass. anyhow, Bush will be happy to know he's off the hook. and how dae those women seek 'survival' jobs! let them eat cake! Name: Impervious Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 11:17:19 2001 Comment: It?s a troublesome cycle. When the going gets tough, too many women think they can do better on their own. They seek survival jobs that wind up lowering salaries for everyone. Because of this historical pattern salaries haven?t significantly increased in America in the last 20 years. Name: sbdwestpac Email: sbdwestpac@aol.com Date: Thu Jun 7 10:28:45 2001 Comment: My cousin's wife was a project manager at her daddy's company. My cousin installs phones for Ma Bell. Daddy's company went bust. Cousin's second wife is a flight attendant. Progress? Name: King Tut Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 10:09:36 2001 Comment: As I was saying... This is a no brainer, shallow woman meets overworked netslave then netslave gets dumped when earning potential takes a dive. Sounds like an episode of the Simpsons! Name: King Tut Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 10:04:22 2001 Comment: Name: MasterPo Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 09:00:42 2001 Comment: WOW! I actually agree with Dave!! If you used your money or potential thereof to lure in a girl for a relationship then you get what you deserve. I'm no prude. It's the nature of things that the female wants to know how well a provider the male will be. But we're humans, not wild beasts and have to deal with the realities of society, especially tech, especially in places like NYC and San Fran. If she leaves you over this odds are she was looking long before anyway and is just using this as a good excuse. Name: Dave Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 08:44:54 2001 Comment: Hmmm.... men who marry women who love them for their earnings potential? Why can't I feel sympathetic for either party here? Name: Zen Taco Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 08:31:47 2001 Comment: Great suggestion, Aikubu. Pema rocks. But the fruit never falls far from the tree. So does Trungpa. Realizing that the nature of the world is ultimately suffering (old age, sickness, death), is the beginning of wisdom. And few things have brought this home to me more clearly than the insanity of the past few years. It's why I'm leaving my second net company (as a founder), leaving behind the world of veal-fattening pens, brain-numbing flourescent lights, recycled air, and synthetic carpets, and headed for a monastery, where I can do something I feel actually matters, rather than doing stuff that isn't even going to change my neighborhood, let alone the world. Name: coder Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 05:28:53 2001 Comment: Yeah puppet guy, things have gotten scary, even in the bay area. I remember when putting the words "java programmer" in your resume title on monster got your 300 emails and phone calls for a week. Nowadays no one seems to be hiring. Luckily I am still employed, thought I dont know for how long. Our company only has a month or two of money left and our promised funding is mysteriously absent. All the engineers I know there are asking around for new job leads. Name: Puppet on a String Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 03:52:41 2001 Comment: Plenty I know plenty of people who are out of work. They have good skills, they just aren't "superstars" in their fields. And they are hurtin'. I have a struggling business and I get and earful from my SO. Everyones wants to be wealthy, but no one wants to put the sweat and worrying equity into it. If business doesn't pick up, I'll have to pack up. You can't do much about getting thrown out on the street when you don't have money. Name: Aikibu Email: whazen@earthlink.net Date: Thu Jun 7 02:15:32 2001 Comment: Layoffs... broken relationships... (based on money not love) Failure...Why don't you youngins try reading Pema Chodran,s book "The Wisdom of No Escape". I think it is really cute the you folks are starting to get a clue. Life can be difficult sometimes ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! Don't buy any automatic weapons and keep your sense of humor and you just may evolve into something better....Namaste' Name: Charity Frito Email: Date: Thu Jun 7 02:08:44 2001 Comment: Men like young girls with big tits, women like dumb men with fat wallets. This is news? How many of the women are fat and ugly? That's what I thought.